Dude, what are you talking about?

Who said anything about poor instruction?  There is no poor instruction going
on.  Stick to the facts.  

Some people will never DIR.  Some people will never own a great piece of gear.

When one of these guys walks into a shop and turns away advice from a GUE
instructor, why should the shop not sell the guy the traditional OW gear that
he insists he wants.  It's helping to keep the shop in business.  The guy is
going to throw money at another shop that is carrying the gear he wants.

You say:
"No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I won4t dive with
them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the serious diver
wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to pretend we are
committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the safest way to
go."

I think that is somewhat of a poor attitude.  I take inexperienced divers
diving all the time.  Almost none of them know what they're doing, and they
never will without a little mentoring.  Maybe if these divers see a DIR diver
put on the gear quickly and easily, then dive with perfect buoyancy, and just
have an all round fun day, they will be inclined to take a Fundamentals course
and buy some Halcyon gear.  Wow, more profit your DIR Akumel shop.  You can
serve the DIR community better.  

I'll say it again:
If someone is never going to DIR, and turns down the shop's advice, then I say
it's fair game to hose them by selling the gear they want.  Are they really
getting hosed if they get the gear they want?

It's a win-win situation.

ss

On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Nicolai M. Tousaint wrote:

> So maybe they can teach stroke diving too, as long as they teach you a good
> class ?
> let them dive with that gear in the same boat , as long you are not there ?
> 
> If you are really committed to the DIR philosophy, you are all the way,
> 
> Actually GUE and Halcyon are sacrificing profit for quality training and
> equipment, and you will not find stroke gear that sells there or a cheap
> class with many c-cards included, when will the dive shops committed to DIR
> diving as well ?
> 
> By the way, if you come diving with us in the new Akumal DIR Center, in the
> Yucatan wonderland, expect no stroke gear for sell rent or use in the
> premises, as well ONLY custom DIR diving programs will be available ( to all
> levels ), No stroke divers and gear will be welcome, as I won4t dive with
> them, I will teach exclusively GUE training only  for the serious diver
> wanting to put the required effort, we are not trying to pretend we are
> committed, as we really believed that the DIR system is the safest way to
> go.
> 
> best
> Nicolai M. Toussaint
> Akumal DIR Center
> www.gue.com
> Quality Dive Instruction, in Mexico4s cave country, the best in the world.
> www.halcyon.net
> DIR equipment repairs, sales, maintenance
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> Cc: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>;
> <jimholcomb@x-*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <cavers@ca*.co*>;
> <quest@gu*.co*>
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> 
> 
> >
> > My favourite DIR shop is set up with a Halcyon wall, and a non-Halcyon
> wall.
> >
> > On the Halcyon wall, you find, all the good stuff like the wings,
> harness/BP, reels, spools, liftbags, etc.  On the non-Halcyon wall, there is
> an array of ridiculous stuff like snorkels, tank-bangers, and various
> gadget-type stuff that is commonly found in most PADI OW classes.
> >
> > The Halcyon gear often sells itself on its own merit, however some
> customers come in wanting a standard OW BC like they learned on, or that
> their instructor used, or simply because it is cheaper.  The staff will
> recommend Halcyon and take the time answer any questions and give complete
> explanations.  There are however some customers that cannot be swayed, and
> will end up buying half-a-dozen tank bangers so that they can signal their
> buddy the same way the cool PADI divemaster did on the boat.
> >
> > I do not frown on the dive shop for selling this kind of gear.  This is
> one dive shop that has bent over backwards for me.  There aren't many shops
> that will let me mix my own gas, fix my own gear, borrow gear or tools, and
> call me at home if there is a last minute chance to get diving on a remote
> wreck that I'd been trying unsuccessfully to dive for a couple months.  If
> selling stroke gear keeps a shop like this in business, then I say "sell
> more stroke gear".
> >
> > DIR is NOT for everybody.  If a diver has made up their mind to buy a
> Sherwood BC, then they will go out and find it.  I just hope they find it at
> my local DIR shop to keep the good times a rollin'
> >
> > ss
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, terry michael wrote:
> >
> > > Tankboots are necessary for pool dives. As for rationalizing selling or
> stocking inferior dive equipment "products" being "OK" to make a buck.
> That's complete stroke bullshit in my opinion. I'd personally rather find
> another line of work then betray principles that I believe in.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "Gertje"<gert.je@wo*.nl*>
> > > To: ScottBonis@ao*.co*, jimholcomb@x-*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com,
> cavers@ca*.co*, quest@gu*.co*
> > > Date: Fri Nov 09 03:19:59 PST 2001
> > > Subject: Re: [cavers] RE: GI and SS to Merge
> > >
> > > >Scott,
> > > >
> > > >Never been at Brownies, have you?
> > > >[they even sell tankboots!!!!!!!! ;-) ]
> > > >If there is ONE shop that's supposed to DIR, it's them. Two
> GUE-instructors
> > > >behind the counter, several GUE courses a year given. And EVEN THEY
> have to
> > > >sell strokegear to keep paying the bills.
> > > >DIR won't feed you, cashflow does!
> > > >By selling the shit and making money out of it, they can develop new
> > > >DIR-gear and keep our show on the road.
> > > >They only can ADVISE the people that come in, to DIR.
> > > >
> > > >If you go to a hardwarestore for a tool, and they only sell a brand you
> have
> > > >never heard of, and looks 'strangely differend' from the tool you
> learned to
> > > >work with in class, what would YOU do? I would go to another shop that
> gives
> > > >me a choice. I MIGHT buy the 'strange' looking tool, but only after I
> had a
> > > >chance to listen to the salesrep. and compare.
> > > >
> > > >Gertjan
> > > >[the Netherlands]
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Jim,
> > > >>
> > > >> I am sending this message to three separate lists as your message, to
> > > >which I
> > > >> am replying, was sent to these three same lists.
> > > >>
> > > >> Jim, I guess that your message explains a major portion of the
> difference
> > > >> between you and me.  You see I could never supply gear to anyone that
> I
> > > >> thought was not the proper gear for that person to be using in any
> given
> > > >> situation.
> > > >>
> > > >> Your boast of << I sold tons of bullshit stroke gear ...
<snip> ...
> folks
> > > >> have got to sell stuff to pay the bills. You going to make my house
> > > >payment
> > > >> while I sit on my ass and be a purist? >> , and the rest of your
> message
> > > >> indicating to me that you knew that what you were selling was not
> > > >acceptable
> > > >> gear at the time you sold it, is so repulsive that I find it hard to
> > > >contain
> > > >> my disgust for your actions.  It is people like you, using the excuse
> that
> > > >"I
> > > >> need to make a living," that are a detriment to the scuba diving
> industry
> > > >and
> > > >> IMHO, just possibly the cause of various scuba accidents.  "Farm
> animal
> > > >> stupid" is too kind for you because you knew that what you were doing
> was
> > > >> wrong at the time you were doing it.  Make a living some other way,
> but
> > > >not
> > > >> by knowingly placing divers in potentially unacceptably dangerous
> > > >> predicaments.
> > > >>
> > > >> To me, there is no reason to ever supply a diver with unacceptable
> > > >equipment
> > > >> for him or her to use in any given situation.  Either supply
> acceptable
> > > >gear
> > > >> or inform the diver that the proposed diving cannot be accomplished
> safely
> > > >> with the other gear that you have presently for sale.  And then offer
> to
> > > >help
> > > >> get (special order, alternate supplier, more expensive initially but
> > > >second
> > > >> hand, etc.) alternative acceptable gear to satisfy the diver's needs.
> > > >This
> > > >> is known as professionalism and any other course of action is, IMHO
> > > >grossly
> > > >> irresponsible if not downright criminal.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am certainly glad that your message is in the past tense << ...
> until a
> > > >> couple weeks ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta. >>, as I'd rather not
> need
> > > >to
> > > >> think about your still supplying unacceptable equipment to divers.
> > > >>
> > > >> And you profess to support the DIR philosophy???  Is that "use
> acceptable
> > > >> equipment unless that doesn't sell and then Jim Holcomb can make a
> little
> > > >> more money by having someone buy unacceptable equipment"?  Just whom
> do
> > > >you
> > > >> think you're kidding?
> > > >>
> > > >> But then, this is just one instructor's opinion.
> > > >>
> > > >> Take care and dive safe,       Scott
> > > >>
> > > >> Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through the
> restraints
> > > >and
> > > >> scramble up out of the pit.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> In a message dated 11/7/01 7:59:18 PM, jimholcomb@x-*.co*
> writes:
> > > >>
> > > >> << Well, in a fucked up kind of way, I agree. But wouldn't it be
a
> whole
> > > >lot
> > > >> more hypocritical to sell a stroke "stroke" gear.  Up until a couple
> weeks
> > > >> ago, I ran a dive shop in Atlanta.  I sold tons of bullshit stroke
> gear to
> > > >> folks.  If you got to sell something to somebody to pay the bills it
> would
> > > >> probably be better to sell them gear oriented toward the DIR
> philosophy as
> > > >> opposed to some of that shit I sold.  My point being, folks have got
> to
> > > >> sell stuff to pay the bills. You going to make my house payment while
> I
> > > >sit
> > > >> on my ass and be a purist? Better to sell DIR stuff to strokes than
> stroke
> > > >> shit to strokes. Make any sense?????
> > > >>
> > > >> Jim Holcomb >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co*
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
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