George developed these scooters 10 years ago for deep, long range
exploration in the WKPP. There was nothing else available. He bore all of
the expense of developing and perfecting this tool. Initially, they were
only made available to WKPP members, but later other groups showed an
interest and extras were produced and sold to help fund the Project. All
expenses of the project are paid by George and have been paid by George for
ten years.

  Rodney contacted George and Robert Carmichael about getting a job here so
he could move to the States. George arranged one for him at one of his
father's companies based on Rodney's experience in oz making fishing lures.
Pipewelders is one of his fathers companies. Robert ended up hiring him at
Brownies. Robert asked George to show Rodney how to work on the scooters.

Rod then quit, came up with a scooter of his own, and is sitting around
riding on our success while producing a kluged  product that reflects zero
understanding of what makes scooters good or bad, and then badmouths us at
the same time with complete lies and a total misunderstanding of why we do
what we do and plays to an audience of whiners who like to hate George. Ask
anyone who has dealt with George on scooters or anything else directly and
you will get a different answer that the crap that the losers put on here.
Ask any of the more than 200 people who own one of George's scooters, and
ask any of the people who have bullshit clones that fail to perform like a
Gavin.

Then, to add insult to injury . either Rod or one of his little buddies put
out a series of anonymous posts making all kinds of false claims about
George and his scooters. That was it. George warned what he would do - make
the same thing only a hell of a lot better and cheaper, and it took him no
time at all to do just that.

Enough is enough. Some people never get the message about fighting George
and the WKPP and doing so anonymously or with bullshit and lies. George
merely had his machine shop make up a scooter looking the same ( tapered on
the end like that makes any difference ) and one piece inside and out (
Rodney's is NOT although he advertises that it is).  However, he solved all
of the problems of Rod's scooter and made a far improved version for less
money that still mates up with all existing scooters made by George, and
like all scooters made by George, has a lifetime warranty and superior
performance.

So for those who think the submersion is somehow better, think again. But,
you can get a far better version of the it cheaper, or you can get the
original Gavin. For those with existing fleets of gavins, these new ones
will mate up in all of the modular components. Once again, results talk,
bullshit walks .

What happened to the hypocrite who claimed Rod had "improved" on the
design? Which is it, copy or improvement? make up your minds. It is always
the worst hypocrites who do the loudest howling.

The fact is you can have any scooter you want from George, Halcyon, EE and
it will be made by people who have the track record to know what they are
doing and the ability to back it up. is there anything else you guys want
to fight with George, JJ, Halcyon, EE or WKPP about ? Anyone feel lucky?
George has two courses of action he has followed with liars and anonymous
bullshitters - 1) let Alton Hall handle it,  2) do something more to the
point. Have it either way. Sooner or later the idiots will get sick of
losing and shut the hell up.

You guys only hurt one person with this - yourselves. Now you have scooters
that are superseded by a faster, superior product that is sold for less
money. You have killed your own market and your own hero, and made all of
yourselves look like idiots once again.

--p

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryon Bertrim [mailto:bryon@be*.co*]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 11:56 AM
To: Trey; pina; E.N. Von; quest@gu*.co*; Cavers@Ca*.Co*;
Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
Subject: Re: scooters


Who is copying who here George?
BB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>
To: <trey@ne*.co*>; "pina" <pina3@be*.ne*>; "E.N. Von"
<evlink2001@ho*.co*>; <quest@gu*.co*>; "Cavers@Ca*.Co*"
<cavers@ca*.co*>; "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: scooters


>
> By the way, I make both types of scooter now - the original Gavin and
> another one that is made from HDPE and is tapered at the back, only mine
> really is one piece and does not have the bullshit aluminum pipe with
orings
> as a motor compartment like the "submersion", does snot have the kluge
> wiring like the submersion , and does not have the convoluted battery
> arrangement nor the ridiculous "motorcycle handle".
>
> My version is interchangeable with all Gavins I have made, and uses the
same
> internal parts, works the same way. For instance, mine has $68 cost of
gold
> connectors, my motor compartment is one with the tail, and the body is
hard
> pvc while the rest is soft HDPE. The nose keys the batteries.
>
> I made this because I am sick of strokes copying our hard work and
profiting
> from it, like the submersion guy. This version of the scooter is cheaper
to
> produce than the Gavin, so I will be selling it cheaper, and a hell of a
lot
> cheaper than submersion.
>
> I will also be maintaining the Gavins for our use and for those who want
the
> sure thing at the extreme depths that we know the Gavin is made for.
>
> The only changes I am making to the Gavin are to offer the HDPE nose for
> those who want it with the hard nose for super deep, and am using a screw
in
> reed switch if you want it to adjust the trigger more easily.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:28 AM
> To: pina; E.N. Von; quest@gu*.co*
> Subject: RE: scooters
>
>
>
> The scooters pretty much all act the same regardless of size if they are
> balanced correctly. Look at the pictures of JJ and I scootering and towing
> magnum's. The big scooters have more lateral stability in motion so are
> actually easier and more comfortable to ride than little ones.
>
> Pina rides a magnum back to the far reaches of Manatee with no problem.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pina [mailto:pina3@be*.ne*]
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:44 PM
> To: E.N. Von; quest@gu*.co*
> Subject: RE: scooters
>
>
>
> Just get a Gavin and DIR - no sense fluffing about with other stuff that
> won't get you anywhere.
>
> --pina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: E.N. Von [mailto:evlink2001@ho*.co*]
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:25 PM
> To: quest@gu*.co*
> Subject: scooters
>
>
> I am interesed in starting to learn to drive a scooter.  Can anyone give a
> good suggestion for a starter scooter.  I have a feeling that a Gavin
would
> be quite a bit to handle for a new driver, but I may be wrong, having
never
> having the chance to see one in person.
>
> Thanks in advance for you help.
>
> E.N. Von
> evlink2001@ho*.co*
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
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>



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