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Aldo, I thought this is what you would say. No offense cause I don't want to flame. This is compete and utter Bull Shit, honestly. You are talking about something you know nothing about! How do you think we in the North East find out about 99% of our wrecks? Certainly not from NOAA and other "regulatory agencies" cause they are wrong. There are ton's of wrecks that are shown on the NOAA maps from as recent as WW II where the location is WAY off. Case in point, the German U-Boat U-869 which was shown to be off Africa or somewhere, it was discovered by a trawler in the early 90's or late 80's and identified in like 1997. The location was reported to NOAA to update their charts and it's still listed wrong. Many of the wrecks are identified by divers where they were on charts completely wrong by the agencies and even thought you tell them and give them the evidence, they are not updated. Why???? Cause they don't care about them, they are of no cultural significance. Now if we had found a 4000 year old Greek sailing ship in our waters you'd bet they would take the time to mark it on our charts. Even ones that have been completely unknown are not updated on these charts cause they are of no significance and not a hazard to navigation so no one cares.... Anyway, we find out about our wrecks from the trawlers and clammers. You don't think someone does search pattern grids looking for hits on the bottom finder, do you? No, it's cause it's not feasible with the area we are talking about. It's the trawlers snagging their nets on the wrecks. They mark down the GPS numbers so they know to avoid that spot in the future. Heck, some will send down divers to recover their nets if they can't get them to un-foul from the wreck. Like you said, trawler nets are extremely expensive. Some trawlers will give up their snags to divers, others won't. Some give them up to fishermen and they tell us. I honestly don't know about too many wrecks 10 miles out to sea that were just located cause someone was cruising around and found a hit. Occasionally on the way back in we'll find a high spot, throw in a buoy and put a diver down on it but it's rare that it's anything more than a high spot in the sand or a pile of rocks.... Honestly, this shows your ignorance to our area. I'm sure you are a smart guy in your field but not in our area, where we dive, how we do things, etc., it doesn't apply and that's the problem with the UNESCO law!!! As someone else mentioned, you can't make a general law and apply it to everywhere, it just doesn't make sense. In the North East of the US we are talking about the approaches to NY harbor and the St Lawrence sea way, you know, the busiest shipping area in the world!! How many wrecks do you think are in this area? I've heard the estimate that is typically thrown around being that in the NY/NJ area there are 3000 wrecks, some estimates are higher. That's a lot of wrecks in a concentrated area. We wouldn't have trawlers anywhere in the area with all the wrecks. Trawlers and clammers snag wrecks all the time but I guess you are correct and smarter then all of them as boat a boat captain cause based on your statement below none of them have any brains. I honestly think you should do some research before making statements like this..... Art. -----Original Message----- From: Aldo Solari [APS] [mailto:aldo.solari@ho*.se*] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:59 PM To: Paltz, Art Subject: Art-- Art, nets drift. A trawl costs over 60.000 dollars and no one with some brain will trawl in wreck areas. ---- aldo.solari@ho*.se* (fisheries biologist) Home page, www.ccbb.ulpgc.es/fish-ecology/solaris ---- Art.Paltz@R2*.CO* APRC> Again, maybe it's just location. In my area spear APRC> fishermen/divers are going 5-10 miles off shore or more. I APRC> was not talking about the kid in a loin cloth with a scuba APRC> tank going 100 foot off shore and in 20 foot of water for 8 APRC> hours. I was talking about the divers going 10-80 miles APRC> from shore in 110-200 foot of water armed with a spear gun APRC> and doing a bottom time of 20 to 60 minutes. APRC> My point is that the UNESCO rules might work well where you APRC> are but they don't really make much sense where I am. If APRC> trawlers are so much further off shore than I am, how come APRC> just about EVERY wreck I dive on has at least one trawling APRC> net snagged on it? -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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