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John, Stone and his strokes proved the fallacy of their "philosophy" with
three months of going no place. The biggest dive Stanton pulled off after 90
days of trying was exactly halfway to the end and where I ROUTINELY send
setup divers, and short of where JJ , Brent and I put the line on OPEN
CIRCUIT. P a t h e t i c.

I have done so much of this stuff and can tell you there is no way in hell I
am going to fool myself into thinking I can get out of a CF with a backup
rebreather - the odds of that are slim to none. I KNOW I can get out on OC,
and I have twice as much OC bailout in the cave as is necessary to get out,
and I have enough on my back to go 12,000 feet on  way.

The fact is that the WKPP can pull off 19000 foot dives in one day and be at
dinner that night. Nobody else can do that. Nobody has. We put it all
together and make it fly because we know what we are doing from have done it
so many times for so many years. I am so sick of listening to morons and
strokes try to tell me how it is done when the proof is out there for all to
see.

We get teams to put in safeties and scooters to a certain points, and then
JJ and I take the whole thing forward to the end. Last dive JJ and I added
3500 feet of line out to 19 K in one tunnel and dropped safeties from 6k to
17 k and found a new lead there at 17k.

If one uses Luxfer Al 80's with 65% or more helium, they are neutral to
slightly positive and we can pull a train of them with us, dropping of sets
of two every 1200 feet. We also have a tiny inflation device on the bottles
to make them exactly neutral for carrying long distance.

There is no excuse for not DIR. NONE. There is nothing in a cave worth dying
for, and JJ and I will continue to "walk down and fuck them all" while the
rest of the Kamikazes keep dreaming up more bullshit and excuses. By the
way, JJ and I not only SURVEY everything we explore, we VIDEO it at the same
time. Again - ALL IN ONE DAY, AT DINNER THAT NIGHT.

No excuse for anything less than what we do. NONE at all.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: John Brett [mailto:JohnB@pi*.co*.uk*]
  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:27 AM
  To: trey@ne*.co*
  Subject: Re: [wkpp] FW: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly



  I saw a presentation by Rick Stanton a few weeks' ago, here
  in the UK.
  It was hard keeping a straight face throughout the 2 hour long
  description of strokery that went on during the Wak2 project,
  but the one point that made me think Rick had any sense at
  all was his comment that the twin CIS-lunars were far too
  complex for use within a cave.

  Oh, and then the description that he & Jason were starting a
  dive, Jason had an inconsistency with the backup computer on one
  of the RBs so started sorting it out. Rick then completed the
  mission (alone, leaving his buddy behind, with an RB that was
  playing up), and came back to find Jason still fiddling with the
  computers.

  Strokes, all.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: trey@ne*.co*
    To: wkpp@ya*.co*
    Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 11:15 AM
    Subject: RE: [wkpp] FW: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly


    The double rb bullshit is one of the things that slowed those guys down
and they told me they spent full time trying to keep that kluge going
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Robert M. Carmichael [mailto:halcyon@ha*.ne*]
      Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:17 PM
      To: wkpp@ya*.co*
      Subject: RE: [wkpp] FW: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly


      I think Stone actually filed a patent on dual rb circuits ten years or
so ago.



      RMC







      -----Original Message-----
      From: trey@ne*.co* [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
      Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:42 PM
      To: Wkpp@Ya*. Com
      Subject: [wkpp] FW: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly



      Reinhard, straighten this moron out .He was real funny when he was
badmouthing Stone, but now he is over the line, and the guy is s complete
stroke if the truth be known.


      [trey]


      From: isler [mailto:isleroc@sp*.ch*]
      Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 3:35 PM
      To: techdiver@aq*.co*; Cavers@aquanaut.com;
rebreather@nw*.co*
      Subject: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly

      Hi everybody,

      I am new on the list. I am interested in  diving with rebreathers. I
speak French so, my sincere apologies for my approximativ English.
      I red the website of Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER, and I
would like to precise some points in this following message. The translation
is good, because I gave it to a good Friend much better than me for
Shakespeare language...

      Some informations about the exploration of the Doux de Coly.

      Since 1984 the Doux de Coly is the longest known sump in Europe.

      Summary of explorations.
      1972. PJ DEBRAS reaches 352 m (a remarkable performance at that time).
      1981. Both Claude MAGNIN & Olivier ISLER dive one after the other and
MAGNIN stops at 1750 m.
      1984. MAGNIN reaches 2630 m, and ISLER stops at 3100 m (up to this
time all dives are made with open circuits).
      1991. ISLER stops at 4055 m using the RI 2000 (redundant rebreather
with 3 independant circuits).
      1998. ISLER progresses another 250 m (to 4300 m) having unrolled 1150
m of guide-line, again using the RI 2000 rebreather.
      2001. Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER reach a distance of
5000 m.

      At first, congratulations to Reinhard and Michael for their remarkable
dive. The Doux de Coly carries on and it is not the end. I am very happy to
see that my difficult dive in 1998, where I found the continuation of the
cave, has so successful consequences.

      The dive of Reinhard and Michael is reported with a lot of details on
the attractive website www.tekdyk/doux.
      Unfortunately, an error appears at the "Welcome" page of the site. The
assertion that  "... all dives were directed using the DIR philosophy
developped by the floridian cave diving team WKPP..." is NOT correct. In
fact, the dive was directed using an intermediate philosophy between that of
DIR and the rebreather redundancy developped by myself (as mentioned on the
site).

      The analysis of their dive in fact shows that they both carried 2 X 20
l tanks on their back (return on open circuit in case of rebreather
failure). They dived as 2 divers together, as in DIR philosophy. Beyond a
distance of 800 m, no safety or relay cylinders were placed in the sump. The
reason was that both divers used the double rebreather RB 80. This is
undeniably my philosophy of using Redundant Rebreathers.

      It looks evident that rebreather's redundancy, nevertheless thrown
back by the WKPP, was decisive in their successful dive. If they had
followed exact DIR philosophy, Reinhard and Michael both would have used a
single rebreather, and they would have relied on safety cylinders staged far
down into the sump (maybe 3000 m or more), impossible to carry out without a
powerful support team.

      As for myself, I am proud to note that, after 11 years of existence,
my philosophy of Rebreather Redundancy, has begun  at least to appear in
extreme diving activity. Even if it is not yet fully accepted, the idea of
Rebreather redundancy goes on, in Europe with Reinhard and Michael and in
Australia with David APPERLEY.

      I will end with a note that if Reinhard and Michael plan in the future
to cross the stage of total Rebreather Redundancy (by using an additional
small front mounted safety rebreather) they will both have quadrupled
redundancy, when, during my own solo dives, I had at my disposal triple
redundancy. With such a configuration, the crash risk becomes tiny.

      Olivier ISLER


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>John,=20
Stone and his strokes proved the fallacy of their "philosophy" with =
three months=20
of going no place. The biggest dive Stanton pulled off after 90 days of =
trying=20
was exactly halfway to the end and where I ROUTINELY send setup divers, =
and=20
short of where JJ , Brent and I put the line on OPEN CIRCUIT. P a t h e =
t i=20
c.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D499050311-11102001></SPAN><SPAN
class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I have done so much of this stuff and can tell =
you there is=20
no way in hell I am going to fool myself into thinking I can get out of =
a CF=20
with a backup rebreather - the odds of that are slim to none. I KNOW I =
can get=20
out on OC, and I have twice as much OC bailout in the cave as is =
necessary to=20
get out, and I have enough on my back to go 12,000 feet on =20
way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>The=20
fact is that the WKPP can pull off 19000 foot dives in one day and be at =
dinner=20
that night. Nobody else can do that. Nobody has. We put it all together =
and make=20
it fly because we know what we are doing from have done it so many =
times=20
for so many years. I am so sick of listening to morons and strokes try =
to tell=20
me how it is done when the proof is out there for all to see.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>We get=20
teams to put in safeties and scooters to a certain points, and then JJ =
and I=20
take the whole thing forward to the end. Last dive JJ and I added 3500 =
feet of=20
line out to 19 K in one tunnel and dropped safeties from 6k to 17 k and =
found a=20
new lead there at 17k. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>If one=20
uses Luxfer Al 80's with 65% or more helium, they are neutral to =
slightly=20
positive and we can pull a train of them with us, dropping of sets of =
two every=20
1200 feet. We also have a tiny inflation device on the bottles to make =
them=20
exactly neutral for carrying long distance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>There=20
is no excuse for not DIR. NONE. There is nothing in a cave worth dying =
for, and=20
JJ and I will continue to "walk down and fuck them all" while the rest =
of the=20
Kamikazes keep dreaming up more bullshit and excuses. By the way, JJ and =
I not=20
only SURVEY everything we explore, we VIDEO it at the same time. Again - =
ALL IN=20
ONE DAY, AT DINNER THAT NIGHT.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>No=20
excuse for anything less than what we do. NONE at =
all.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D499050311-11102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John Brett=20
  [mailto:JohnB@pi*.co*.uk*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 11,
2001 =
3:27=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> trey@ne*.co*<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [wkpp]
FW: =
Redundant=20
  Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I saw a presentation by Rick Stanton =
a few weeks'=20
  ago, here</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>in the UK.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It was hard keeping a straight face =
throughout=20
  the 2 hour long</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>description of strokery that went on =
during the=20
  Wak2 project,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but the one point that made me think =
Rick had any=20
  sense at</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>all was his comment that the twin =
CIS-lunars were=20
  far too</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>complex for use within a =
cave.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh, and then the description that he =
& Jason=20
  were starting a</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dive, Jason had an inconsistency =
with the=20
  backup computer on one</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of the RBs so started sorting it out. =
Rick then=20
  completed the</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mission (alone, leaving his buddy =
behind, with an=20
  RB that was</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>playing up), and came back to find =
Jason still=20
  fiddling with the</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>computers.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Strokes, all.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dtrey@ne*.co* =
href=3D"mailto:trey@ne*.co*">trey@netdor.com</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dwkpp@ya*.co*=20
    href=3D"mailto:wkpp@ya*.co*">wkpp@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October
10, =
2001 11:15=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [wkpp] FW: =
Redundant=20
    Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><SPAN class=3D425441410-10102001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>The double rb bullshit is one of the things that slowed =
those guys=20
    down and they told me they spent full time trying to keep that kluge =

    going</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Robert M. =
Carmichael [<A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:halcyon@ha*.ne*">mailto:halcyon@halcyon.net</A>]<BR><B=
>Sent:</B>=20
      Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:17 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:wkpp@ya*.co*">wkpp@yahoogroups.com</A><BR><B>Subje=
ct:</B>=20
      RE: [wkpp] FW: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de=20
      Coly<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV class=3DSection1>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT
face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">I=20
      think Stone actually filed a patent on dual rb circuits ten years =
or so=20
      ago.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT
face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
      <P class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =
Signature" <span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span>&l
t;![endi=
f]--><B><I><FONT=20
      face=3DArial color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">RMC</SPAN></FONT></I></B><B><I><FONT=20
      face=3DArial color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></B></P>
      <P class=3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: navy; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: navy; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: navy; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![en
dif]--><=
SPAN=20
      class=3DEmailStyle19><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy =
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      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
      Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
      trey@ne*.co* [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, October 09, =
2001 8:42=20
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
Wkpp@Ya*.=20
      Com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> =
[wkpp] FW:=20
      Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly</SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
      size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Reinhard,=20
      straighten this moron out .He was real funny when he was =
badmouthing=20
      Stone, but now he is over the line, and the guy is s complete =
stroke if=20
      the truth be known.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">[trey] </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
      style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT=20
      face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> isler=20
      [mailto:isleroc@sp*.ch*]<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 08, =
2001 3:35=20
      PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
      techdiver@aq*.co*; Cavers@aquanaut.com;=20
      rebreather@nw*.co*<BR><B><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Redundant =
Rebreathers &=20
      The Doux de Coly</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black">Hi=20
      everybody, </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I am new on =
the list. I=20
      am interested in  diving with rebreathers. I speak French so, =
my=20
      sincere apologies for my approximativ English. <BR>I red the =
website of=20
      Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER, and I would like to =
precise some=20
      points in this following message. The translation is good, because =
I gave=20
      it to a good Friend much better than me for Shakespeare =
language...=20
      </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=3D"Times New
Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black">Some=20
      informations about the exploration of the Doux de=20
      Coly.</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN
style=3D"COLOR: =
black">=20
      </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Since 1984 =
the Doux de=20
      Coly is the longest known sump in Europe. </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Summary of=20
      explorations. <BR>1972. PJ DEBRAS reaches 352 m (a remarkable =
performance=20
      at that time). <BR>1981. Both Claude MAGNIN & Olivier ISLER =
dive one=20
      after the other and MAGNIN stops at 1750 m. <BR>1984. MAGNIN =
reaches 2630=20
      m, and ISLER stops at 3100 m (up to this time all dives are made =
with open=20
      circuits). <BR>1991. ISLER stops at 4055 m using the RI 2000 =
(redundant=20
      rebreather with 3 independant circuits). <BR>1998. ISLER =
progresses=20
      another 250 m (to 4300 m) having unrolled 1150 m of guide-line, =
again=20
      using the RI 2000 rebreather. <BR>2001. Reinhard BUCHALY and =
Michael=20
      WALDBRENNER reach a distance of 5000 m. </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">At first,=20
      congratulations to Reinhard and Michael for their remarkable dive. =
The=20
      Doux de Coly carries on and it is not the end. I am very happy to =
see that=20
      my difficult dive in 1998, where I found the continuation of the =
cave, has=20
      so successful consequences. </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The dive of =
Reinhard=20
      and Michael is reported with a lot of details on the attractive =
website=20
      www.tekdyk/doux. <BR>Unfortunately, an error appears at the =
"Welcome" page=20
      of the site. The assertion that  "... all dives were directed =
using=20
      the DIR philosophy developped by the floridian cave diving team =
WKPP..."=20
      is NOT correct. In fact, the dive was directed using an =
intermediate=20
      philosophy between that of DIR and the rebreather redundancy =
developped by=20
      myself (as mentioned on the site). </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">The =
analysis of their=20
      dive in fact shows that they both carried 2 X 20 l tanks on their =
back=20
      (return on open circuit in case of rebreather failure). They dived =
as 2=20
      divers together, as in DIR philosophy. Beyond a distance of 800 m, =
no=20
      safety or relay cylinders were placed in the sump. The reason was =
that=20
      both divers used the double rebreather RB 80. This is undeniably =
my=20
      philosophy of using Redundant Rebreathers. </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">It looks =
evident that=20
      rebreather's redundancy, nevertheless thrown back by the WKPP, was =

      decisive in their successful dive. If they had followed exact DIR=20
      philosophy, Reinhard and Michael both would have used a single =
rebreather,=20
      and they would have relied on safety cylinders staged far down =
into the=20
      sump (maybe 3000 m or more), impossible to carry out without a =
powerful=20
      support team. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">As for =
myself, I am=20
      proud to note that, after 11 years of existence, my philosophy of=20
      Rebreather Redundancy, has begun  at least to appear in =
extreme=20
      diving activity. Even if it is not yet fully accepted, the idea of =

      Rebreather redundancy goes on, in Europe with Reinhard and Michael =
and in=20
      Australia with David APPERLEY. </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I will end =
with a note=20
      that if Reinhard and Michael plan in the future to cross the stage =
of=20
      total Rebreather Redundancy (by using an additional small front =
mounted=20
      safety rebreather) they will both have quadrupled redundancy, =
when, during=20
      my own solo dives, I had at my disposal triple redundancy. With =
such a=20
      configuration, the crash risk becomes tiny.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
      color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
      size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Olivier =
ISLER=20
      </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
      style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
      <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
      color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black"><BR></SPAN></FONT><TT><FONT=20
      face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
      style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
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New'"><BR><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
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