Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
--=====================_14901892==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For what it's worth, below... Main Entry: 1choke Pronunciation: 'chOk Function: verb Inflected Form(s): choked; chok=B7ing Etymology: Middle English, alteration of achoken, from Old English=20 AcEocian, from A-, perfective prefix + cEoce, cEace jaw, cheek -- more at=20 ABIDE, CHEEK Date: 14th century transitive senses 1 : to check normal breathing of by compressing or obstructing the trachea= =20 or by poisoning or adulterating available air Main Entry: stran=B7gle Pronunciation: 'stra[ng]-g&l Function: verb Inflected Form(s): stran=B7gled; stran=B7gling /-g(&-)li[ng]/ Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French estrangler, from Latin=20 strangulare, from Greek strangalan, from strangalE halter -- more at STRAIN Date: 14th century transitive senses 1 a : to choke to death by compressing the throat with something (as a hand= =20 or rope) : THROTTLE b : to obstruct seriously or fatally the normal=20 breathing of c : STIFLE At 10:11 AM 10/2/01 +1000, James Dibbs wrote: >When I was a judo enthusiast we were taught that a choke is where you cut >off the flow of air whereas a strangle is where you cut off the flow of >blood. > >Both are taught in Judo as different moves. Don't know about Ju Jitsu as it >was always promoted as the "Dark Side" of Judo. > >James Dibbs >Sydney, Australia > >At 08:10 PM 9/30/01 -0700, you wrote: > >When someone is getting choked, in ju jitsu or judo, you are not cutting >off > >the wind or air, you are cutting off the artery in the neck and stopping >the > >flow of blood. If you are trying to cut off the air you either have poor > >technique or have no clue what you are doing. The person goes= unconscious > >from the lack of blood flow, not from lack of air. That is why someone >will > >usually pass out in four to five seconds if a choke is executed= correctly. > >So it does not matter if you can hold your breath for a long time or if= you > >are "working". I was a high school All American and a college wrestler > >along with being a east coast judo champion, so I think I know more than > >most. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*] > >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 9:43 AM > >To: Trey > >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com > >Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again > > > >Royce Gracie, the famed Ju Jitsu fighter from the Gracie family and= school, > >while known for a great number of victories by chokes, is a classic > >Brazilian fighter who uses a number of submission holds. The best fight I > >ever saw was when he defeated "Kimo" with an arm lock, but then Gracie > >could not fight his next fight because he was winded. > > > >Most chokes are often for a very short period of time and the fighter= "taps > >out", if he resists a true choke, he goes unconscious in way less than a > >minute. > > > >The average diver can hold his breath for longer than a minute, but he is > >not usually "working" when he does this. > > > >I have a many number of years of amateur wrestling at the jr high and= high > >school level and freestyle during the summer months, so I know more than > >most. Though some Olympic wrestlers are doing very well in the fights= that > >are held now most are unable to pass the "guard" of Ji Jitsu fighting and > >lack punching or kicking power to take out an opponent. > > > >Once fighters found they only had to last the first 8 minutes of poor > >punching from Olympic wrestler Mark Coleman while in the guard, they= could > >easily defeat him with kicks or punches. > > > > > > > > At 09:03 PM 9/25/01 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > > >If you are getting choked out you need to go to one of the Brazilian Ju > > >Jitsu guys, like Carlson/Gracie and learn how to defend the chokes. I > > >sparred with this 250 pound guy last weekend who constantly went for >every > > >choke he could on me and I had no problem blocking it, although it was= a > > >little scary at times with somebody that strong trying to choke you= out. > > >That style of Ju Jitsu has the best of the tricks. The only thing that > >saves > > >my ass with those guys is years of wrestling combined with the C/G= style, > >at > > >least the way they taught me. > > > > > >What you are saying about BR diving is true, and that is why you need a > > >buddy. It is also nice to have a unit that has fewer failure modes. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Cam Banks [mailto:cam@ca*.co*] > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:04 PM > > >To: Trey; wkpp@ya*.co* > > >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com > > >Subject: Re: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > > > > >It'd be interesting to ask all the people who want to own a rebreather= if > > >they've ever had the experience of passing out from hypoxia. It's= quick, > > >and gives no warning. If it happens to you underwater, you won't be >coming > > >back, probably whether you have a buddy or not. > > > > > >I have been choked out once and almost choked out many times playing > > >judo/jujitsu over the years (because I suck), and my housemate has= passed > > >out from hypoxia in a navy ship-board firefighting suit. = Interestingly, > > >neither of us wants to do any rebreather diving. > > > > > >Maybe a quick choke should be a prerequisite to rb training. It= doesn't > > >hurt; you just go to sleep. The difference is, you come back... > > > > > >Cam > > > > > > > From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) > > > > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:34:57 -0400 > > > > To: <wkpp@ya*.co*> > > > > Cc: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > > > > > > > > This asshole got on the tech lists and told me I don't know what I= am > > >doing. > > > > He then proceed ed to spread lies about me which everyone called him >on. > > >He > > > > then told me I was a moron and did not understand rebreathers, as= did >a > > > > couple of IANTD idiots who promote solo diving with rebreathers and > > >teaching > > > > diving with rebreathers. He told me DIR is bullshit and that his= dives > > >were > > > > safe done solo. > > > > > > > > One more dead moron, and I love to see these guys keep getting= whacked > >and > > > > whacked and whacked until somebody gets the message. Obviously IANTD >is > > >not > > > > going to get the message, and but somebody out there who might >otherwise > > > > follow the lead of these idiots might be saved. All rebreathers > >including > > > > the one I use are EXTREMELY dangerous, with the Buddy Inspiration >being > >at > > > > the bottom of the barrel in my informed opinion, and the Cis Lunar >being > > >one > > > > of the better ones. None of them should ever be used solo. Most of >them > > > > should not be used at all. 99% of these wanabees do not have a good > >reason > > > > to use one in the first place. > > > > > > > > Every death on a rebreather has been solo or effectively solo. > > > > > > > > I will also point out that this Richahart moron was one more huge= fat > >know > > > > it all slob with something to prove and an IANTD attitude, as I said > >when > > >I > > > > was arguing with him when he came after me. > > > > > > > > Right again and I will continue to be right and proven right on= these > >guys > > > > every time. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael J. Blitch [mailto:mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*] > > > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:07 PM > > > > To: wkpp@ya*.co* > > > > Subject: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > > > > > > > > Details are sketchy, but the guy that was making up the BS on > > > > techdiver and Fltech a month or so ago is now missing and presumed > > > > dead while diving off the RBJ. Eric Reichardt > > > > <fishfinder1@ho*.co*> is the name of the victim. The kicker is > > > > that he was uses the very same cis-luna rebreather that Dr. Kendall > > > > used in Wak2 project. He was solo diving with a same ocean diver= that > > > > was using a Buddy Inspiration. Sometimes one has to hate it when > > > > George is right since that often means another death was completely > > > > avoidable. Eric was completely out of shape 250-300 lbs, and had > > > > previously spoke of CNS and HPNS 'hits' he experienced. Last I saw > > > > this guy I was diving on the Minnow in WPB with some OW student and > > > > even on the reef he was using the cis-lunar with yellow force fins. > > > > > > > > Body recovery may be attempted in the next couple of days, but the > > > > current was something like 3.5 knots today, so unless he wedged > > > > himself in the wreck, it is probably past Miami by now. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You know you're addicted to the Internet when... > > > > Your wife drapes a blond wig over your monitor to remind you of what >she > > > > looks like. > > > > > > > > Subscription/removal requests to WernerChris@ms*.co*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to= `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > >-- > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to= `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in= the > >water" > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________ > > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the >water" >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the= =20 water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* --=====================_14901892==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> For what it's worth, below...<br> <br> Main Entry: <font size=3D1><b><sup>1</font></sup>choke</b> <br> Pronunciation: <font face=3D"Courier New, Courier">'chOk<br> Function: <i>verb<br> </i>Inflected Form(s): <b>choked</b>; <b>chok=B7ing<br> </b>Etymology: Middle English, alteration of <i>achoken, </i>from Old English <i>AcEocian, </i>from <i>A-, </i>perfective prefix + <i>cEoce, cEace </i>jaw, cheek -- more at </font><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>ABIDE</font></u><font face=3D"Courier New,= Courier">, </font><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>CHEEK<br> </font></u><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier">Date: 14th century<br> <i>transitive senses<br> </i><b>1</b> <b>:</b> to check normal breathing of by compressing or obstructing the trachea or by poisoning or adulterating available air<br> <br> </font>Main Entry: <b>stran=B7gle</b> <br> Pronunciation: <font face=3D"Courier New, Courier">'stra[ng]-g&l<br> Function: <i>verb<br> </i>Inflected Form(s): <b>stran=B7gled</b>; <b>stran=B7gling</b> /-g(&-)li[ng]/<br> Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French <i>estrangler, </i>from Latin <i>strangulare, </i>from Greek <i>strangalan, </i>from <i>strangalE </i>halter -- more at </font><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>STRAIN<br> </font></u><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier">Date: 14th century<br> <i>transitive senses<br> </i><b>1 a</b> <b>:</b> to choke to death by compressing the throat with something (as a hand or rope) <b>: </font><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>THROTTLE</font></b></u><font face=3D"Couri= er New, Courier"> <b>b</b> <b>:</b> to obstruct seriously or fatally the normal breathing of <b>c</b> <b>: </font><font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>STIFLE<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </font></b></u>At 10:11 AM 10/2/01 +1000, James Dibbs wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3Dcite cite>When I was a judo enthusiast we were taught that a choke is where you cut<br> off the flow of air whereas a strangle is where you cut off the flow of<br> blood.<br> <br> Both are taught in Judo as different moves. Don't know about Ju Jitsu as it<br> was always promoted as the "Dark Side" of Judo.<br> <br> James Dibbs<br> Sydney, Australia<br> <br> At 08:10 PM 9/30/01 -0700, you wrote:<br> >When someone is getting choked, in ju jitsu or judo, you are not cutting<br> off<br> >the wind or air, you are cutting off the artery in the neck and stopping<br> the<br> >flow of blood. If you are trying to cut off the air you either have poor<br> >technique or have no clue what you are doing. The person goes unconscious<br> >from the lack of blood flow, not from lack of air. That is why someone<br> will<br> >usually pass out in four to five seconds if a choke is executed correctly.<br> >So it does not matter if you can hold your breath for a long time or if you<br> >are "working". I was a high school All American and a college wrestler<br> >along with being a east coast judo champion, so I think I know more than<br> >most.<br> ><br> >-----Original Message-----<br> >From: Capt JT [<a href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"= eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</a>]<br> >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 9:43 AM<br> >To: Trey<br> >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com<br> >Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again<br> ><br> >Royce Gracie, the famed Ju Jitsu fighter from the Gracie family and school,<br> >while known for a great number of victories by chokes, is a classic<br> >Brazilian fighter who uses a number of submission holds. The best fight I<br> >ever saw was when he defeated "Kimo" with an arm lock, but then Gracie<br> >could not fight his next fight because he was winded.<br> ><br> >Most chokes are often for a very short period of time and the fighter "taps<br> >out", if he resists a true choke, he goes unconscious in way less than a<br> >minute.<br> ><br> >The average diver can hold his breath for longer than a minute, but he is<br> >not usually "working" when he does this.<br> ><br> >I have a many number of years of amateur wrestling at the jr high and high<br> >school level and freestyle during the summer months, so I know more than<br> >most. Though some Olympic wrestlers are doing very well in the fights that<br> >are held now most are unable to pass the "guard" of Ji Jitsu fighting and<br> >lack punching or kicking power to take out an opponent.<br> ><br> >Once fighters found they only had to last the first 8 minutes of poor<br> >punching from Olympic wrestler Mark Coleman while in the guard, they could<br> >easily defeat him with kicks or punches.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > At 09:03 PM 9/25/01 -0400, Trey wrote:<br> ><br> > >If you are getting choked out you need to go to one of the Brazilian Ju<br> > >Jitsu guys, like Carlson/Gracie and learn how to defend the chokes. I<br> > >sparred with this 250 pound guy last weekend who constantly went for<br> every<br> > >choke he could on me and I had no problem blocking it, although it was a<br> > >little scary at times with somebody that strong trying to choke you out.<br> > >That style of Ju Jitsu has the best of the tricks. The only thing that<br> >saves<br> > >my ass with those guys is years of wrestling combined with the C/G style,<br> >at<br> > >least the way they taught me.<br> > ><br> > >What you are saying about BR diving is true, and that is why you need a<br> > >buddy. It is also nice to have a unit that has fewer failure modes.<br> > ><br> > ><br> > >-----Original Message-----<br> > >From: Cam Banks [<a href=3D"mailto:cam@ca*.co*"= eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:cam@ca*.co*</a>]<br> > >Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:04 PM<br> > >To: Trey; wkpp@ya*.co*<br> > >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com<br> > >Subject: Re: [wkpp] George is right again<br> > ><br> > ><br> > >It'd be interesting to ask all the people who want to own a rebreather if<br> > >they've ever had the experience of passing out from hypoxia. It's quick,<br> > >and gives no warning. If it happens to you underwater, you won't be<br> coming<br> > >back, probably whether you have a buddy or not.<br> > ><br> > >I have been choked out once and almost choked out many times playing<br> > >judo/jujitsu over the years (because I suck), and my housemate has passed<br> > >out from hypoxia in a navy ship-board firefighting suit. Interestingly,<br> > >neither of us wants to do any rebreather diving.<br> > ><br> > >Maybe a quick choke should be a prerequisite to rb training. It doesn't<br> > >hurt; you just go to sleep. The difference is, you come back...<br> > ><br> > >Cam<br> > ><br> > > > From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey)<br> > > > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:34:57 -0400<br> > > > To: <wkpp@ya*.co*><br> > > > Cc: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com><br> > > > Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > This asshole got on the tech lists and told me I don't know what I am<br> > >doing.<br> > > > He then proceed ed to spread lies about me which everyone called him<br> on.<br> > >He<br> > > > then told me I was a moron and did not understand rebreathers, as did<br> a<br> > > > couple of IANTD idiots who promote solo diving with rebreathers and<br> > >teaching<br> > > > diving with rebreathers. He told me DIR is bullshit and that his dives<br> > >were<br> > > > safe done solo.<br> > > ><br> > > > One more dead moron, and I love to see these guys keep getting whacked<br> >and<br> > > > whacked and whacked until somebody gets the message. Obviously IANTD<br> is<br> > >not<br> > > > going to get the message, and but somebody out there who might<br> otherwise<br> > > > follow the lead of these idiots might be saved. All rebreathers<br> >including<br> > > > the one I use are EXTREMELY dangerous, with the Buddy Inspiration<br> being<br> >at<br> > > > the bottom of the barrel in my informed opinion, and the Cis Lunar<br> being<br> > >one<br> > > > of the better ones. None of them should ever be used solo. Most of<br> them<br> > > > should not be used at all. 99% of these wanabees do not have a good<br> >reason<br> > > > to use one in the first place.<br> > > ><br> > > > Every death on a rebreather has been solo or effectively solo.<br> > > ><br> > > > I will also point out that this Richahart moron was one more huge fat<br> >know<br> > > > it all slob with something to prove and an IANTD attitude, as I said<br> >when<br> > >I<br> > > > was arguing with him when he came after me.<br> > > ><br> > > > Right again and I will continue to be right and proven right on these<br> >guys<br> > > > every time.<br> > > ><br> > > > -----Original Message-----<br> > > > From: Michael J. Blitch [<a href=3D"mailto:mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*"= eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*</a>]<br> > > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:07 PM<br> > > > To: wkpp@ya*.co*<br> > > > Subject: [wkpp] George is right again<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > Details are sketchy, but the guy that was making up the BS on<br> > > > techdiver and Fltech a month or so ago is now missing and presumed<br> > > > dead while diving off the RBJ. Eric Reichardt<br> > > > <fishfinder1@ho*.co*> is the name of the victim. The kicker is<br> > > > that he was uses the very same cis-luna rebreather that Dr. Kendall<br> > > > used in Wak2 project. He was solo diving with a same ocean diver that<br> > > > was using a Buddy Inspiration. Sometimes one has to hate it when<br> > > > George is right since that often means another death was completely<br> > > > avoidable. Eric was completely out of shape 250-300 lbs, and had<br> > > > previously spoke of CNS and HPNS 'hits' he experienced. Last I saw<br> > > > this guy I was diving on the Minnow in WPB with some OW student and<br> > > > even on the reef he was using the cis-lunar with yellow force fins.<br> > > ><br> > > > Body recovery may be attempted in the next couple of days, but the<br> > > > current was something like 3.5 knots today, so unless he wedged<br> > > > himself in the wreck, it is probably past Miami by now.<br> > > ><br> > > > --<br> > > > You know you're addicted to the Internet when...<br> > > > Your wife drapes a blond wig over your monitor to remind you of what<br> she<br> > > > looks like.<br> > > ><br> > > > Subscription/removal requests to=20 WernerChris@ms*.co*.<br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to<br> ><a href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a><br> > > ><br> > > ><br> > > > --<br> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to<br> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to<br> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<br> > > ><br> > ><br> > >--<br> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<br> > ><br> > >--<br> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<br> ><br> >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the<br> >water"<br> >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast &=20 more<br> > Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> >Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> ><br> ><br> >--<br> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >_________________________________________________________<br> ><br> >Do You Yahoo!?<br> ><br> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href=3D"http://mail.yahoo.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://mail.yahoo.com</a><br> ><br> <br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the <br> water"<br> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more<br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> <br> <br> --<br> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<br> --<br> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<br> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. </blockquote><br> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water"<br> <font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more <br> Web Site <a href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</a><br> Email captjt@mi*.co*<br> <br> </font></u></html> --=====================_14901892==_.ALT-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]