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Thanks, that makes better sense. All the other stuff I said is correct or you would have said other wise. At 08:10 PM 9/30/01 -0700, you wrote: >When someone is getting choked, in ju jitsu or judo, you are not cutting off >the wind or air, you are cutting off the artery in the neck and stopping the >flow of blood. If you are trying to cut off the air you either have poor >technique or have no clue what you are doing. The person goes unconscious >from the lack of blood flow, not from lack of air. That is why someone will >usually pass out in four to five seconds if a choke is executed correctly. >So it does not matter if you can hold your breath for a long time or if you >are "working". I was a high school All American and a college wrestler >along with being a east coast judo champion, so I think I know more than >most. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*] >Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 9:43 AM >To: Trey >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com >Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again > >Royce Gracie, the famed Ju Jitsu fighter from the Gracie family and school, >while known for a great number of victories by chokes, is a classic >Brazilian fighter who uses a number of submission holds. The best fight I >ever saw was when he defeated "Kimo" with an arm lock, but then Gracie >could not fight his next fight because he was winded. > >Most chokes are often for a very short period of time and the fighter "taps >out", if he resists a true choke, he goes unconscious in way less than a >minute. > >The average diver can hold his breath for longer than a minute, but he is >not usually "working" when he does this. > >I have a many number of years of amateur wrestling at the jr high and high >school level and freestyle during the summer months, so I know more than >most. Though some Olympic wrestlers are doing very well in the fights that >are held now most are unable to pass the "guard" of Ji Jitsu fighting and >lack punching or kicking power to take out an opponent. > >Once fighters found they only had to last the first 8 minutes of poor >punching from Olympic wrestler Mark Coleman while in the guard, they could >easily defeat him with kicks or punches. > > > > At 09:03 PM 9/25/01 -0400, Trey wrote: > > >If you are getting choked out you need to go to one of the Brazilian Ju > >Jitsu guys, like Carlson/Gracie and learn how to defend the chokes. I > >sparred with this 250 pound guy last weekend who constantly went for every > >choke he could on me and I had no problem blocking it, although it was a > >little scary at times with somebody that strong trying to choke you out. > >That style of Ju Jitsu has the best of the tricks. The only thing that >saves > >my ass with those guys is years of wrestling combined with the C/G style, >at > >least the way they taught me. > > > >What you are saying about BR diving is true, and that is why you need a > >buddy. It is also nice to have a unit that has fewer failure modes. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Cam Banks [mailto:cam@ca*.co*] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:04 PM > >To: Trey; wkpp@ya*.co* > >Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com > >Subject: Re: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > >It'd be interesting to ask all the people who want to own a rebreather if > >they've ever had the experience of passing out from hypoxia. It's quick, > >and gives no warning. If it happens to you underwater, you won't be coming > >back, probably whether you have a buddy or not. > > > >I have been choked out once and almost choked out many times playing > >judo/jujitsu over the years (because I suck), and my housemate has passed > >out from hypoxia in a navy ship-board firefighting suit. Interestingly, > >neither of us wants to do any rebreather diving. > > > >Maybe a quick choke should be a prerequisite to rb training. It doesn't > >hurt; you just go to sleep. The difference is, you come back... > > > >Cam > > > > > From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) > > > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:34:57 -0400 > > > To: <wkpp@ya*.co*> > > > Cc: "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Subject: RE: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > > > > > This asshole got on the tech lists and told me I don't know what I am > >doing. > > > He then proceed ed to spread lies about me which everyone called him on. > >He > > > then told me I was a moron and did not understand rebreathers, as did a > > > couple of IANTD idiots who promote solo diving with rebreathers and > >teaching > > > diving with rebreathers. He told me DIR is bullshit and that his dives > >were > > > safe done solo. > > > > > > One more dead moron, and I love to see these guys keep getting whacked >and > > > whacked and whacked until somebody gets the message. Obviously IANTD is > >not > > > going to get the message, and but somebody out there who might otherwise > > > follow the lead of these idiots might be saved. All rebreathers >including > > > the one I use are EXTREMELY dangerous, with the Buddy Inspiration being >at > > > the bottom of the barrel in my informed opinion, and the Cis Lunar being > >one > > > of the better ones. None of them should ever be used solo. Most of them > > > should not be used at all. 99% of these wanabees do not have a good >reason > > > to use one in the first place. > > > > > > Every death on a rebreather has been solo or effectively solo. > > > > > > I will also point out that this Richahart moron was one more huge fat >know > > > it all slob with something to prove and an IANTD attitude, as I said >when > >I > > > was arguing with him when he came after me. > > > > > > Right again and I will continue to be right and proven right on these >guys > > > every time. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael J. Blitch [mailto:mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*] > > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:07 PM > > > To: wkpp@ya*.co* > > > Subject: [wkpp] George is right again > > > > > > > > > Details are sketchy, but the guy that was making up the BS on > > > techdiver and Fltech a month or so ago is now missing and presumed > > > dead while diving off the RBJ. Eric Reichardt > > > <fishfinder1@ho*.co*> is the name of the victim. The kicker is > > > that he was uses the very same cis-luna rebreather that Dr. Kendall > > > used in Wak2 project. He was solo diving with a same ocean diver that > > > was using a Buddy Inspiration. Sometimes one has to hate it when > > > George is right since that often means another death was completely > > > avoidable. Eric was completely out of shape 250-300 lbs, and had > > > previously spoke of CNS and HPNS 'hits' he experienced. Last I saw > > > this guy I was diving on the Minnow in WPB with some OW student and > > > even on the reef he was using the cis-lunar with yellow force fins. > > > > > > Body recovery may be attempted in the next couple of days, but the > > > current was something like 3.5 knots today, so unless he wedged > > > himself in the wreck, it is probably past Miami by now. > > > > > > -- > > > You know you're addicted to the Internet when... > > > Your wife drapes a blond wig over your monitor to remind you of what she > > > looks like. > > > > > > Subscription/removal requests to WernerChris@ms*.co*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the >water" >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >_________________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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