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"Mike G." schrieb: > is is planning to kill people? They may not have > known where/when/how Bin Laden was going to kill > people, but they knew he was going to kill. Indeed. That's about as much as we have a right to imagine what's in their mind. Killing,beating, mutilating shariarizing, opressing the majority of their population, women in general. But we cannot bomb them back to stoneage, since they did not depart from that so much they would notice. Understanding of, access to modern technology ? Yes, but this is no contradiction. Hell, my late dog could handle those automatic doors which open on approach, and automatic escalators to. Understanding modern societies? No. They are stuck in their religion, which is, this is to admit, modern and ancient at the same time. _Modern_, because Islam is the latest evolutionary step from the old, and new testament, specificating the first in detail, avoiding the mistakes of the second by knowing them through the time gap between. _Ancient_, because christian religions have evolved through good and bad times in history, while Islam has never ceased to be what it was from the beginning, like the old testament. A survival guide, a guide to mental and physical health, to social relations, to intrapersonnel and interpeople relations. Something in between a moral institution, an FDA, a constitution, and more . And still up to date there. If you happened to read some verses out of the old testament printed in a local desert village newspaper, you would take it for the local news. It is genuine, period. Because few people could read or write , it was/is of such extreme importance to have such a book like the Quoran or the Bible, therefore all the fuss the isrealites made about their shrine since Salomon, while Mohamed made a code that his Word should not be altered. While a modern society sees and integrates changes, the oriental muslim society seems not to , like the orthodox jews. So they(...) see foreign kind like Europeens, american forces, as natural intruders, tempting them away from their virtues. And they fall for it( would never admit). Female U.S. soldiers in T-shirts in Saudi-Arabia, the land of the two holy mosques. What insult. Remember young men there are supposed to "see" their wife not before the day of wedding, and have a terrible fear of not being able to produce a bloodstained bedsheet the morning after. If not, it's the woman's fault, for granted. Imagine the degree of frustration seeing "multisexual" forces in their country, the terrible plight of imagining what these do at night, the only recourse for them being other species ( though we don't have reports from raped donkeys yet) So the sources of frustration become rapids of terrorism. ( well I am being sarcasastic right now, but confess not knowing how much) A friend of mine was chief of the biological laboratory in Rhyadh in the Eighties, and he knew for certain that some number of the wealthy Saudis had all the veneral diseases they were not supposed to have regarding their religion, reason enough for the government to forbid flights to Bangkok. It is beyond me why this crazy face of the Islam _practized_ only shows up in the arabic countries, but not in the black african ones ( with the exception of a source of real madness, the Mahdi movement from Sudan, which spread from its sources in the 19th century Khartoum uprising up to now and then inflammatory reoccurrances, latest in Nigeria and southern Niger Republic. Must have something to do with the way woman are treated in Arabia, as opposed to the well respected role of women in the west african world. This Imho is really where we should start and get clues how to integrate the oriental world into something we would like to live in coexistance with. As well as trying to get wise men from the other ancient religions together for round table talks ( orthodox jews, Coptic christians from Egypt, Ethiopya, Ulama from Yemen( where dialects similar to Mohameds still exist) Remember the funda"mentals" want the Jews extinguished not only because they "stole" their county, but because they killed one of their prophets ( Jesus). Hopefully the perversions of the daily islamic practice would begin to disappear . For instance: the shador principle: Mohamed said women should be dressed decently, otherwise they could be molested by dumb males. _present practice_: Women estimated ( dictated , perverted view)dressing "undecently" _are_ being molested ( "because Mohamed said so") Bombing the counties we suspect or know to give shelter won't help terminating terrorism. Beaten dogs bite at the stick, as well as their offspring. Afraid the terrorists have read their Shun Tzu and Mao, and Clausewitz as well. They trade their traditional homes for being on the trail , using our technologies for their goals. We must try to be a step ahead, this means action by the Intelligence services , not the bomb squads. For instance using this new retina identifikation software tool, capable of tracking identities as well as movement profiles by way of an optical retina check whenever an individual does any action of public interest ( which is difficult to define, and prone to abuse, though) Like checking in at airports, receiving funds (from foreign countries), withdrawing cash, renting a car,taking a pilots class, you name it. Reqires an initial process or identification and verification , yes. In closing for today, 2 things come into my mind. First, what has this to do with diving.... Well , Peter Vine's book "Red Sea safety" draws traces back to the Book of Mose, where hints are given on safety issues related with touching, eating, encountering fish. Second, a Jonny Cash song " The Big Battle", and Grace Slick " white Rabbit". Well, the good boys are on their way. Whatever this may mean, I hope for the best. Matthias > If we make a couple examples (Afghanistan and Pakistan > come to mind) other countries will not only NOT allow > people like Bin Laden to stay in their country, but > they will most likely help hunt them down and kill > them. Over time terrorist will be reduced to a small > number of ineffective people. > > Mike > > --- Andy Schmidt <Andy_Schmidt@HM*.co*> wrote: > > Yep, let's start with the country that harbored > > their training camp > > (Florida). > > > > Then the country of residence and where they were > > attending a technical > > college (Germany). > > > > Not to forget the country of origin (Saudi > > Arabia)... > > > > Hm... wait a minute... so may be we DO have to turn > > on our brains after all? > > > > I'm all for punishing those who were responsible, > > conspiring or otherwise > > tolerated these activities. If it takes a war effort > > - so be it. Those who > > tell themselves there is a quick fix to the problem > > are running through the > > world with their eyes and ears closed. Nothing is > > more certain then that any > > reaction will lead to an even bigger > > counter-reaction two to five years down > > the road. > > > > That doesn't mean that punishment should be avoided > > - just don't lie to > > yourself that eliminating terrorists is somehow > > equal to eliminating > > terrorism. Just like other areas of civil and > > political unrest in the past > > 100 years: As long as a region is not at peace and > > the U.S. finds itself > > forced into taking one or the other side and > > actively supporting one or the > > other party, they will just as certain piss off the > > opponents and be > > vulnerable to their hatred. Why some Americans > > assume that the U.S. can > > dictate the battlefield of its foreign policies is > > beyond me. For every > > American-made or financed weapon fired somewhere in > > the world, there is some > > family member who instantly became your biggest > > enemy. Most of them will > > never have the financial and logistical opportunity > > to act out their > > revenge - but given enough decades in time, there > > will always be a few who > > are determined enough to bring devastation back to > > the U.S. > > > > So do strike and strike hard - just do it knowingly > > that this is only > > another step in a bloody escalation that will go on > > for a least the next > > generation. It is as certain as hell, that more > > building will tumble in the > > decades to come - for a change, it will no longer > > just be abroad. In the > > long run, it is the peace process in the Middle East > > that is the only hope > > for a solution where countries in that region can > > address their own > > matters - without the U.S. being savior to one side > > and devil to the other. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brad Wilson [mailto:ac4bw@ya*.co*] > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 03:06 PM > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > Subject: Re: Lines in the Sand > > > > > > Jim may sound harsh, but you have to realize what > > just > > happened to us. We have tried to be nice and these > > jerks have attacked us over and over again. They > > blew > > up embassys, and we did little. Some jerk on a raft > > took out a billion dollar warship, and we did > > NOTHING. > > Now, they kill thousands. And that doesn't even > > count > > the monetary damage to those who's businesses were > > destroyed, people who now have no job, and the > > massive > > amount of just property damage. We are in a state of > > total rage. I agree with what I heard my own > > Senator, > > Zell Miller (D-Georgia and a former Marine) said: > > > > "Bomb the HELL out of them." He continued saying, So > > what if there is collaterial damage. They obviously > > didn't care about innocent civilians, why should we > > care about theirs. If they get in the way, that's > > just > > too bad. > > > > I say we turn those countries who harbor or have > > anything to do with terrorists into a freaking > > parking > > lot. And if the innocent civilians don't want to be > > hit, then they better dig in or get outta town. > > > > Brad > > > > --- Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> wrote: > > > No, no joke. This is all being funded by our oil > > > dollars. We just go over > > > there and take the damn oil, the fundamentalists > > > have no more funds, problem > > > solved. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > > Donate cash, emergency relief information > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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