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Greg, I've made literally hundreds, maybe a thousand P.P. fills. I use regular compressor air from my regular old compressor. I fill pretty fast, I don't have time to fart around. I clean my tanks once a year with Simple Green, I don't do anything to my regulators, including my 100% 02 regulator, which has a low pressure hose as well as a high pressure hose going to a submersible pressure gauge, both made of butyl rubber with no lining other than butyl rubber... which is a hydrocarbon if I've ever heard of one... it's a flipping petroleum product! Used it for over twenty years, never cleaned it. Dive industry/shop bullshit. Be a sucker and go buy an 02 safe regulator and I'll buy your old one for $20! Scott Gudmundsen Vernal, Utah (soon moving to Carson City, Nevada to check out the diving in Lake Tahoe!) My technical diving website at: www.fotofixer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Porter, Greg" <Gregory.Porter@AR*.Bo*.co*> To: "Porter, Greg" <Gregory.Porter@AR*.Bo*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <Cetaceans@ya*.co*>; <vbtech@ci*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; "'Bill Wolk'" <BillWolk@ea*.ne*> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:12 AM Subject: RE: CO detection > Hi Bill, > > > ---------- > > From: Bill Wolk[SMTP:BillWolk@ea*.ne*] > > > > On 8/30/01 Porter, Greg, Gregory.Porter@AR*.Bo*.co* wrote > > > > >Given the possibility of having an undetected Oxygen flash while PP > > filling, > > >and given that the resultant Carbon Monoxide in the cylinder would be > > >tasteless, odorless, and lethal, is anyone testing fills with a CO > > detector > > > > [snip] > > > > Greg - > > > > Before we get to the carbon monoxide detector, where did you come up with > > the idea that there's such a thing as an "undetected Oxygen flash" in the > > first place? > > > Heard it from a few different different divers and at least one dive shop > technician. Didn't dream it up myself. If you know different give me your > experience. > > > It sounds like another gas handling "monster in the closet story" foisted > > on the diving public ... <snip> > > > I assume from this statment that you don't know either.... > > > Would everyone out there who has experienced a "detected Oxygen flash" > > please write Greg so he understands the magnitude of the problem he's > > trying to "fix." > > > That was the original intent of the post.... not sure you're adding anything > constructive here nor that anyone needs your permission to provide input. > Again give your experience if you have any. > > > Let's start at the beginning: oxygen is an oxidizer. It is not itself > > combustible. For there to be an "oxygen flash," your tank already has to > > be contaminated with something combustible and that fuel has to ignite. > > Have you ever found oil in your tanks when they've been VIP'ed? > > > No. I'm talking about O2 cleaned cylinders PP filled and topped off with > appropriately filtered air. > > > If so, I have a few tips for you that are more important than the CO > > detector: > > > As the answer was no, the tips on dirty air are irrelevant. > > > The key to safe technical diving -- call it DIR or not -- is to identify > > *real* problems and to solve them as simply as possible. > > > Agreed > > > Exaggerating problems that rarely exist in the real world and then coming > > up with > > convoluted solutions to solve these non-existent problems makes diving > > more dangerous, not less. > > > Purely based on your post I'm still not sure that an undetected O2 flash is > an 'Exaggerated problem rarely existing in the real world" because you've > provided no input to the contrary other than your assumptions. Any real > experience you have in this regard would be meaningful input. > > It appears that all you're essentially saying is that CO contamination will > not occur if you have clean tanks and air fills. That's not the real world.. > and that's not the attitude that PP filling is based on. > > I'm certainly no expert (hence the post to the Lists) but my understanding > is that PP filling practices are based on the assumption that in this real > world the cleaning of tanks and air may not remove all the combustible > hydrocarbons. Therefore we should PP fill the O2 very slowly just in case > there are HC's present. Now let's say that we mess up and PP fill our O2 > too fast and lets assume that we actually did have some HC's find their way > into our 'clean' environment... we have combustion which produces CO... > ordorless, tasteless, and toxic. > > Hopefully now we're on the same page. So here are the pertinent questions: > > - Is this so rare that we needn't worry about it ? > > - Do we hear the combustion ? > > - Is there an inexpensive, quick, and easy method to check for CO in the > final fill ? > > As intended in the original post and hopefully clarified here.... inputs > from those with experience are appreciated. > > Best regards, > Greg > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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