JT, everyone always has some great "improvement" on Bill Gavin's design. In
our world we say, "look who has the end of the line", and that goes for
Europe and the US. It is no accident that we can bet our lives for 19,000
feet each way on the Gavin design. I will not go into why, but anyone who
needs to know already does. For wreck diving, you guys could use the same
stuff we do, but in your case I like the idea of everyone having the same
gear and it being interchangeable, and in the case of the Dacor, they don't
come any simpler and it certainly has been effective for your application.

I have made a couple of prototype wreck scooters, with the concept being
smaller, more powerful and able to go much deeper, but I am just now finding
ways to make them affordable. Lamar English actually had a real nice one
that you could pick up and hold in one hand and fit into your dive bag. It
had a battery in it like the lights, and would run 20 minutes at about 3
knots. I was thinking about bringing that design back for wreckers, or
something similar.

-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:01 PM
To: Bryon Bertrim; Wendell Grogan
Cc: Techdiver Mailing List
Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor


I guess you don't know as much as you say, its funny how on this list you
can post one thing and those that lurk come out, the guy who built the one
I used knew whose I used and why it was so dam slow. I let Tom (a
friend)use the SS and I dusted his ass with my Apollo at 220ft on the Doria
and had to keep stopping so he could keep up... They now tell me that they
are correcting the motors in the SS, but they still will have a problem
with that type of trigger motorcycle  handle on the SS. The one I used is
only good for depth nothing more, he is willing to come dive with us and
let us test the new ones, so I may change my mind, but the one I saw/used
was a piece of shit, except for the depth rating and should be replaced at
no cost.... Would I use it on one of my deep dives, sure the Apollo/Dacors
won't cut it past 250ft, the SS has been to a max depth of 360ft, I have
made 6 dives PAST that depth and 3 more planned for Oct. one will be past
500ft, you think that scooter is tough let me use one on that dive, I'll
test it and let you know.....

BTW if you paid 2K for an Apollo someone saw you coming.....



At 11:12 AM 8/20/01 -0400, Bryon Bertrim wrote:
>JT and boys
>I believe your your opinion is way off base, the Silent Submersion units
are
>only comparable to a Gavin and Zepp performance wise, like the Gavin they
>both utilize a beefed up Oceanic Mako motor running at 24 volts my guess
>around 1300 RPM they are depth rated to 500 ft/ beyond and durable as hell.
>The Dacor/Apollo is a light duty inexpensive toy by comparison, yes you may
>mod the triggers and beef up the outer shell to handle a bit more depth but
>that is it. The Dacor runs a single 12 volt 24 Amp hr battery and run at
500
>RPM the smallest SS unit uses 2 x18 amp hrs batteries and the mid range
uses
>2 x26 Amp/hr. So you can say that the SS unit is heaver and more expensive
>but the towing power of an SS is over 3 X more than any Dacor. You have to
>worry about the Dacors just making it to the dive site the case is so thin.
>DIR means just that buy the right equipment for the job and the SS unit is
>an expedition class scooter. I use the SS's addition power maneuvering in
>moderate to heavy current much like cave flow its bull nose breaks the
water
>around the diver and equipment allowing you to handle more flow with less
>stress. In a more recent comparison an SS unit to Dacor i had to de-pitch
>the SS's prop to 4 out of 9 to allow the Dacor to barely keep up in a no
>current shootout and i had more gear. Having owned both there is no
>comparison and recommend that if you are into any level of technical diving
>and can afford it buy a real scooter.. A new Apollo will run you 2K where
>for 1.5K more you get 3 X the scooter. All this said, I do agree almost any
>scooter is better than no scooter at all.
>
>BB
>
>FYI Dacor and the Apollo av1 are on in the same. Dacor OEMs them from
>Apollo.
>http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html
>www.silent-submersion.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*>
>To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
>Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:39 PM
>Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of the List
>
>
> > OK, good to know.  But let me ask, easier?  In what way?  Cheaper and
> > faster are more obvious.
> > Wendell
> >
> > Capt JT wrote:
> > >
> > > I have used the Silent Submersion, if you only dive past 225ft all the
>time
> > > then that is what its good for. It has little use or comparison to the
> > > Apollo/Dacor scooter, they are faster, easier, and cheaper..... better
>in
> > > my book....
> > >
> > >   At 12:27 AM 8/19/01 +0200, wendell grogan wrote:
> > > >If anyone is interested, Rodney Nairne's scooters have
> > > >been a good 50 meters deeper without any problems.  He
> > > >sells them as Silent Submersion.
> > > >Wendell
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> schrieb: > Huh,
> > > >actually, 55m is essentially the same depth
> > > > > rating as a standard Mako:
> > > > > 180 feet MOD.  I did take one down to that depth the
> > > > > other day, but
> > > > > considering how often they leak on just mild dives,
> > > > > despite major babying of
> > > > > the o-rings, I wouldn't trust one for anything
> > > > > serious.  Likely you will end
> > > > > up swimming it back, full of water.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cam
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > To: Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re:
> > > > > Purpose of the List
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mako 2 and it's factory rated for 55m anybody done
> > > > > deeper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: "Cam Banks"<cam@ca*.co*>
> > > > > > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver
> > > > > > (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > Date: Fri Aug 17 09:07:58 PDT 2001
> > > > > > Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose
> > > > > of the List
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> What new Mako, please?  Thanks.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Cam
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > >>> To: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@ho*.co*>,
> > > > > "Techdiver (E-mail)"
> > > > > >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > >>> Subject: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of
> > > > > the List
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> MOD for the new Mako.
> > > > > >>> The manual states 55m. thanks
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>> From: "David B. Widen"<dwiden@ho*.co*>
> > > > > >>> To: "Techdiver (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > >>> Date: Thu Aug 16 18:55:34 PDT 2001
> > > > > >>> Subject: Purpose of the List
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Let go back to tech diving issue and thoughts,
> > > > > drop the T & A stuff. This
> > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > >>>> not January with cold and blow out. It is
> > > > > August with great diving
> > > > > >>>> opportunities.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> David
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > ___________________________________________________
> > > > > >>> GO.com Mail
> > > > > >>> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at
> > > > > http://mail.go.com
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
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> > > >--
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> > >
> > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get
in
>the
> > > water"
> > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> > >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > --
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"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


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