Keith,
     I just got this in another email:

"Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an asshole."

Then you come along and qualify as an Ignoranus by making the statement, "I
guess every side mount cave diver is just totally "unsafe" then aren't
they."
Yes Keith, they are. Just as all solo divers are unsafe. My insurance
company thinks that cave diving is unsafe. Stepping in and out of a shower
is unsafe. Since there is little in life that IS safe the object is to do
whatever we can to reduce the risk in the activities we participate in.
Proper attitude, fitness, equipment, configuration, and procedures
drastically reduces the risk of the dives we do. However, when someone
elects to ignore these for reasons of cost, convenience, ego or whatever
they are not being safe. Certainly there are times when a solo dive might be
safer than with a buddy but that doesn't make it safe and the times that
this would be the case are few and much rarer than many people believe.
Nothing forces you to dive solo or sidemount- there is always the option of
"don't do the dive" A dive that requires solo or sidemount is, by
definition,  less safe than one that doesn't (all other aspects being
equal). The origin of this thread was Thom wanting info on independent
doubles to save the cost of a manifold. Do you think that's a safe attitude
or configuration?
Just as a reality check, I used to dive independent doubles but quit in
1994. Been there, done that- it's not "safe"; there are better "safer" ways
of doing it. To ignore that is the hallmark of strokism. To champion it is
the hallmark of an ignoranus.
C.

Chris Elmore
PalmettoSoft Technologies Corp.
(803) 233-2001 (work)
(803) 348-3055 (mobile)

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Taylor <greymouser@mi*.co*>
To: Steve Schultz <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; Thom Hadfield
<thom.hadfield@ho*.co*>
Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Independents are not safe.


> Don't you just love the nice blanket statements like "Independents are not
> safe." that you see on this list.  I guess every side mount cave diver is
> just totally "unsafe" then aren't they.  Yes independents have much more
of
> a cluster fuck problem, yes they have gas management issues and they are
> definitely NOT the setup that someone new to diving doubles should be in,
> but in certain scenarios they are the "safest" setup.  Just my two cents.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Schultz" <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> To: "Thom Hadfield" <thom.hadfield@ho*.co*>
> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "Dean Laffan" <email@re*.co*.au*>
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Doubles
>
>
> >
> > Thom,
> >
> > Bob Sherwood is a GUE instuctor who is likely willing to travel if you
can
> get a few guys together for the course.  You could also talk to Dan Mackay
> from Kingston at Northern Techdiver.  I bet he'd travel for the right
price.
> Call him 613-6diving.
> >
> > There are reasons why most serious tech divers use iso-manifolds.
> Independants are not safe.  If you TDI friend tells you otherwise, I'd
> suggest finding a different instructor to be your mentor.
> >
> > ss
> >
> > On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Thom Hadfield wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > btw I remember your first posts here some months ago regarding
> purchase of
> > > > trimix and the flurry of replies asking you to slow down and get
> proper
> > > > training. Have you been able to get into some training program and
> find
> > > some
> > > > experienced buddies ?
> > > >
> > > > Please tell me this list is not your primary source of knowledge and
> > > advice
> > > > for technical diving ?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes I have, I dive with an instructor often that is a friend who is
> trimix
> > > certified and has done a lot of Lake superior and ocean diving. I am
> takeing
> > > advanced nitrox and deco theory in sept. No this list is not my only
> source
> > > but Being that there are not a lot of DIR instructores in this area I
> bounce
> > > other ideas I have spoken with people about off the list for honest
> input.
> > > In fact in my area most dive shope are TDI. I already know how most
> people
> > > feel about TDI. I am looking at trimix next summer if I can afford to
> > > assemble the apropriate gear and practice with the gear before the end
> of
> > > next summer. I was looking at using independants on a 115-140(at the
> > > deepest)  foot dive using nitrox. And well I have not adapted the long
> hose
> > > setup yet so I pass a short hose in any event. I also already have 2
spg
> so
> > > it is not a cost. I am looking into re rigging and diving with a long
> hose.
> > > I am currently set up with a primary, secondary, octo and spg on each
> rig.
> > > Which I thought would be a little messy in an independant set up. I
> started
> > > thinking about an independent setup from an Naui and IANTD instructor
> > > suggested it as an option for the dive I mentioned above. I have been
> > > patiently looking on ebay for a descent used manifold but I haven't
ran
> > > across a good deal yet. I do see their are more drawbacks than I had
> > > originally thought about. As far as do i use this list for my soul
tech
> > > diving advice NO but I like to take in all the info and opinions I
have
> > > acess to. But I also relise opinions are like asshole, everybody has
> one. SO
> > > you have to sort through ands take some with a grain of salt. Again
for
> > > those that want to through flames I already understand that
independants
> > > aren;t the best way to acomplish a dive. But I was recongnising the
fact
> the
> > > iso's arent the only way.
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> > --
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>
> --
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