Dan, we can't post there because we can not go into enough background info
to get these people to where they can understand what we are talking about.
They know you and you know how to deal with them. I can not be talking a
serious talk and have a piece of shit like Mike Gray yapping at me.

Just break is down to two components: bullshit and diving. Tell Gray and the
other morons to skip the bullshit and discuss the diving. They can not do it
intelligently, so they should be no problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Volker [mailto:dan@sf*.co*]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:33 PM
To: Jack Farmer; Jim Holcomb; Andrew Georgitsis; anthony rue; Chris
Werner; Jarrod Jablonski; John Walker; MHK; pina; tleemay; Trey
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: Word of advice, Jack


REc.scuba has a couple of anti- DIR people with huge amounts of time on
their hands, and an axe to grind against any DIR idea or person. Mike Gray
is one, Dan Brakuk is another. Gray actually created a "movement" in which
he has been getting recreational divers to "want" to call themselves
"Strokes", and he calls himself a member of "Team Stroke".

While Jack Farmer has made few friends on rec.scuba with his style of
posting, if he has the time, and wants to throw the bullshit flag at Mike
Gray several times per day, that might not be such a bad thing ;-)

As long as Jack does not actually "represent" DIR, and as I remember, he has
stated that he does "NOT"  on multiple occaisions, he can be a positive
force--in that he could "tie up" an extremely negative force ( Mike Gray).
To this end, I'd tell Jack to "go get'em ".

Better still, a few GUE or WKPP trained divers could post more on rec.scuba
, and occaisionally get a WKPP or GUE endorsement  ( George or Jarrod) for a
controversial position which is being argued in one of the longer threads.
Regards,
Dan Volker
www.sfdj.com





-----Original Message-----
From: jack@we*.th*.co* [mailto:jack@we*.th*.co*]On
Behalf Of Jack Farmer
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:45 PM
To: Jim Holcomb; Andrew Georgitsis; anthony rue; Chris Werner; Dan
Volker; Jarrod Jablonski; John Walker; MHK; pina; tleemay; Trey
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Word of advice, Jack


OK Jim #1 I'm in NO WAY trying to be a cheer leader for anyone.

If that's the impression you got it's WRONG.

#2. I'm NOT nor ever WAS trying to sell anything to anyone and stated MANY
times I spoke ONLY for myself and my own experiences and opinions. When
people
there twist that to mean what they want it to then argue about what THEY
think
I MEANT rather that what i plainly SAID I could care less what THEIR opinion
is.

#3. It's been my experience from lurking on rec.scuba for several years
BEFORE
I ever posted anything that there are a few figure heads in there who make
up
that cliché and THEY run rec.scuba the rest follow along. Mike Gray, PopEye
to
name 2 of the more obvious ones. Then there is a guy names ZACK whom I
forced
over several days to admit publicly there he's lied about a statement he's
made
about something Trey was supposed to have done that i called him a liar on.

These are the guy's I'm out to deal with NOT CONVINCE OR CONVERT just show
up
for what they are.

Frankly George can speak for himself and does not need me OR you to speak
for
him I don't and never tried to. if he wants me to shut up HE'll be the one
to
tell me and until he does I'll assume he could care less and do what i feel
like like the rest of us do.

Dive Safe.

L8R

Jim Holcomb wrote:

> I know we have already discussed this once, but let's try again.  The
REASON
> why some people seem to carry more influence on rec.scuba than they should
> is because there are some (with no personal technical experience) that
> insist on trying to be a cheerleader for George and his team.  When your
> general diving population reads some of these folks posts and later learn
> that they have no personal experience in the area they are trying to speak
> it adds credibility to those who have some technical experience but insist
> on doing it wrong.  The folks on rec.scuba are rec divers.  They will
listen
> to the person who seems to have the most experience on a particular
> subject - right or wrong. On the flip side - when folks lacking experience
> in a particular arena attempt selling of a philosophy it results in the
rest
> of us being called DIR fanatics, mindless drones, George wannabes, WKPP
> wannabes and the list goes on.
> With George and his team's list of accomplishments, they are quite capable
> of spreading the word and educating the recreational diving population, in
> general, and the technical diving population, specifically.
> So as a favor to me and many other inexperienced cave and wreck divers who
> have adopted the DIR philosophy toward our
diving..........Please......Shut
> up!
>
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Farmer" <jack@ma*.th*.co*>
> To: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>; "Sally Hooper" <sallyhpr@ea*.ne*>
> Cc: "Marie" <scubagirl@di*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: DCS incident
>
> > Ya know Trey over in rec.scuba HE would be considered to be a supreme
> authority
> > on Tech diving.
> >
> > Man it just keeps going on and on and on and on etc.......
> >
> > I finally REALLY understand why you seem at times short tempered.
> >
> > hahaha
> >
> > Safe Diving.
> >
> > L8R
> >
> > Trey wrote:
> >
> > > Marie, you are a complete moron. I run the most successful dive
project
> in
> > > diving and have LONG AGO sought out and used the real resources in
this
> game
> > > that have allowed us to do what we do so successfully, and have
> accumulated
> > > a track record that you will never understand, as well as developed
> > > decompression techniques that are now recognized as the correct way to
> do
> > > this, and have nothing to do with the slop out of DAN , PADI or Navy.
> Why
> > > don't you find out who and what we are before you get on here like an
> idiot
> > > and start recommending that we all go re read our PADI tables. Should
we
> > > stay three squares from a black box, Marie, or is the good "doc" still
> > > trying to figure that one out?
> > >
> > > Notice that the original question addressed me, not you, and the
correct
> > > answer was given. This is not rec scuba, by the way. If you think the
> word
> > > "bullshit" is "profanity", then maybe you should stop bullshitting.
> > >
> > > I'll start sending everyone to you , PADI and DAN when they ask me a
> deco
> > > question. Your vast experience reading "Alert Diver" will be a big
help
> to
> > > them all, I am sure.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Marie [mailto:scubagirl@di*.co*]
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:03 PM
> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; trey@ne*.co*
> > > Subject: Re: DCS incident
> > >
> > > Well Trey,
> > >
> > > Here are some tips for you:
> > >
> > > 1)  Look before you leap.
> > > 2)  That looks like a pretty nasty case of hoof in mouth.
> > > 3)  It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and
remove
> all
> > > doubt.
> > >
> > > All I was trying to do was help you guys out, but you obviously don't
> care
> > > to know the truth.  If you were interested in expanding your
knowledge,
> you
> > > would have looked into what I said before you open your mouth and
spewed
> > > profanity (obviously the only way you know how to communicate).  Try
> > > checking with DAN or PADI or try reading any one of the over 100
> studies,
> > > articles, and papers he has had published. Or contact the Undersea
> Medical
> > > Society about the many presentations he has given or participated in,
or
> > > contact the Undersea Hyperbaric Medical Society and find out why Dr.
> Powell
> > > is a high respected member.  Or you could contact NEDU (Navy
> Experimental
> > > Dive Unit).
> > >
> > > For any of the rest of you who may be interested in expanding your
> knowledge
> > > of DCS with more than just Trey's hot air, feel free to follow up on
any
> of
> > > the resources I have mentioned.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > > trey@ne*.co* wrote:
> > > > Bullshit. My favorite line here is "during which time he directed
> > > > the
> > > > human-subject tests of the DSAT/PADI Recreational Dive Planner."
> > > > This give
> > > > new meaning to the term "face the wheel".
> > > >
> > > > The fact is that the guys who know the most about this are the
> > > > ones who work
> > > > with sources who actually are involved in serious diving . If
> > > > this guy had
> > > > any contribution to make to this game, we'd know about it. What
> > > > he has is
> > > > the party line that does not work and is why we see these
> > > > accidents. Wake up
> > > > and smell reality.
> > > >
> > > > The Navy comment is also just too funny.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >

--
You Don't HAVE to be NUTS to be a SysAdmin./WebMaster. BUT it Helps!
                    http://www.thecrusaderbbs.com
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