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--part1_23.ee7fa57.2890bf98_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/25/2001 2:49:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, docgrog@ya*.de* writes: > However, if the question is "with whom should I > train?", the answer is more complicated, as you point > out. > > This is true. I won't bash GUE on this list because it definitely doesn't deserve it and I'm not suicidal; and I love my mother :) However, recently someone posted their notes/outline from a GUE Cave 1 course and then a rather specific diary of the what he did each hour of the course. Not being super familiar with the GUE course I looked at the his site and damn, if it wasn't exactly the Cavern, Intro to Cave course I took. Nothing new. I am told BUT DON"T KNOW FOR A FACT that the course fee for GUE Cave 1 is substantially higher than the course fee of a Cavern, Intro to Cave. Doesn't make it inherently bad but it makes me wonder why. I do know someone who took a GUE mix course recently and the fee was the standard $600.00 most instructors are charging. It may depend on the instructor. There's that phrase again. There is no question GUE has outstanding gear rigging and precise procedures. And GUE is attempting to raise the bar on training standards and are to be commended. My reserve with GUE has to do with its independence and its relationships. I question the relationship between GUE and EE, which I understand is no longer into manufacturing since the manifold recall. It may be the tie between a training agency and a manufacturer can be completely above board with no unfortunate ties between them, but my reserve on this issue goes back to Jon Cronin, PADI and US Divers. I question the relationship between Tom Mount, IANTD and the rebreathers he claims not to promote. Or between Bret and Uwatec when he was with them and TDI. It's a small diving world and overlap occurs all the time. I've read on this list that founders of GUE developed their own gear because they couldn't find what they wanted on the market. Now we have EE recalling gear. My problem is putting ANY training agency up on a pedestal or any manufacturer, for that matter. When EE had the manifold recall, no matter how they handled it (I didn't see free shipping in any of the posts to return the manifolds), it WAS a recall nonetheless. It was unfortunate but it also made some people realize EE was just a manufacturer, like any other manufacturer, that has to rely on suppliers. And just because a product is stamped EE doesn't mean its perfect. MY concern is that I listen to too many people who say I do this or that, or I bought this or that, because one person or agency advocates it without ever stopping to really question why or look at the gear or remember ALL gear can and does fail. It may be the best piece of gear or the best procedure but if they are only following mindlessly, what have you got? I do think you and I are on the same page. And it looks like you've become quite sold on GUE after proper due diligence and inquiry. It may be the best out there right now. And if I was taking a course today I'd certainly consider them. I just think everyone, including myself, needs to keep a critical eye and a critical judgment. I may live to regret this post. Susan --part1_23.ee7fa57.2890bf98_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 7/25/2001 2:49:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>docgrog@ya*.de* writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">However, if the question is "with whom should I <BR>train?", the answer is more complicated, as you point <BR>out. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> This is true. <BR> <BR>I won't bash GUE on this list because it definitely doesn't deserve it and <BR>I'm not suicidal; and I love my mother :) <BR> <BR>However, recently someone posted their notes/outline from a GUE Cave 1 course <BR>and then a rather specific diary of the what he did each hour of the course. <BR>Not being super familiar with the GUE course I looked at the his site and <BR>damn, if it wasn't exactly the Cavern, Intro to Cave course I took. Nothing <BR>new. <BR> <BR>I am told BUT DON"T KNOW FOR A FACT that the course fee for GUE Cave 1 is <BR>substantially higher than the course fee of a Cavern, Intro to Cave. Doesn't <BR>make it inherently bad but it makes me wonder why. I do know someone who <BR>took a GUE mix course recently and the fee was the standard $600.00 most <BR>instructors are charging. <BR>It may depend on the instructor. There's that phrase again. <BR> <BR>There is no question GUE has outstanding gear rigging and precise procedures. <BR>And GUE is attempting to raise the bar on training standards and are to be <BR>commended. <BR> <BR>My reserve with GUE has to do with its independence and its relationships. <BR> <BR>I question the relationship between GUE and EE, which I understand is no <BR>longer into manufacturing since the manifold recall. It may be the tie <BR>between a training agency and a manufacturer can be completely above board <BR>with no unfortunate ties between them, but my reserve on this issue goes back <BR>to Jon Cronin, PADI and US Divers. I question the relationship between Tom <BR>Mount, IANTD and the rebreathers he claims not to promote. Or between Bret <BR>and Uwatec when he was with them and TDI. It's a small diving world and <BR>overlap occurs all the time. <BR> <BR>I've read on this list that founders of GUE developed their own gear because <BR>they couldn't find what they wanted on the market. Now we have EE recalling <BR>gear. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">My problem is putting ANY training agency up on a pedestal or any <BR>manufacturer, for that matter. <BR> <BR>When EE had the manifold recall, no matter how they handled it (I didn't see <BR>free shipping in any of the posts to return the manifolds), it WAS a recall <BR>nonetheless. It was unfortunate but it also made some people realize EE was <BR>just a manufacturer, like any other manufacturer, that has to rely on <BR>suppliers. And just because a product is stamped EE doesn't mean its <BR>perfect. <BR> <BR>MY concern is that I listen to too many people who say I do this or that, or <BR>I bought this or that, because one person or agency advocates it without ever <BR>stopping to really question why or look at the gear or remember ALL gear can <BR>and does fail. It may be the best piece of gear or the best procedure but if <BR>they are only following mindlessly, what have you got? <BR> <BR>I do think you and I are on the same page. And it looks like you've become <BR>quite sold on GUE after proper due diligence and inquiry. It may be the best <BR>out there right now. And if I was taking a course today I'd certainly <BR>consider them. <BR> <BR>I just think everyone, including myself, needs to keep a critical eye and a <BR>critical judgment. <BR> <BR>I may live to regret this post. <BR> <BR>Susan <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_23.ee7fa57.2890bf98_boundary-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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