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George, Nice catch. Ed and I had a couple of threads going at once and I got some of the information mixed between threads. Ed was talking about 20 rapid dives, which means no more than 30 feet, probably more like 25. A steel backplate with a steel tank on a wetsuit is a pretty shallow water rig. With my normal wetsuit setup, I need 18 pounds of weight to hold me down. With a steel backplate and a steel tank that is neutral, I wear 12 pounds of lead. At 40 feet, the 16 pounds of bouyancy my wetsuit had on the surface is down to about 8 pounds. So with a full 120 (about 8 pounds of gas above what I weighted for), I expected to be a little negative if I removed the weight belt at 40 feet with my wing empty. When I tried it, (at the anchor line so I could climb up if need be), I was about three or four pounds heavy. I can swim that up if I have to. I'm neutral at about 20 feet on the way up and have trouble stopping. I was glad I did this on the anchor line. Switching to an AL80 would put another four pounds on my belt and make me very close to neutral at 40 feet without a weight belt. I'm not so sure I want to be there unless I have to. I have no intention of trying it deeper, but it is a hell on wheels setup at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. There's no alternate air source, so it is strictly a no-stop rig. I get hungry before I get anywhere the no-stop limits at 30-40 feet anyway. Sorry about the confusion. Don Burke Chesapeake, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> To: Don Burke <donburke56@ne*.ne*> Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: 06 July, 2001 06:27 Subject: RE: DIR setup > steel tank , steel backplate and a wetsuit? I am glad you said "hogarthian" > and not DIR. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Burke [mailto:donburke56@ne*.ne*] > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:24 PM > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Scott; Ed Street > Subject: Re: DIR setup > > > Hi Ed, > > I tried my old rec rig once since going Hogarthian and I'll never use it > again. > > My preferred setup for photo shoots is: > > steel backplate > single steel tank (112 or 120) > If I'm diving dry, a weighted STA. If I'm diving wet, an unweighted STA. > regulator with standard length hoses - a necklace on the short hose > US Divers Jetfins > Mares mask > gloves > thermal protection to suit > > Right now I use my 45# wing while I'm deciding if double 72s would be a > better setup. If I decide to stay with a single tank, I'll get a smaller > wing, probably a 27#. > > If I was diving profiles as short as what you are talking about, I'd look > into an even smaller steel tank. > > No time is wasted "removing crap" since on a rec rig the octopus would have > been clipped somewhere anyway. > > You aren't one of those shitheads who drags his long reg around the reef, > are you? > > You originally said: > > >I've been looking at the DIR setup for awhile now and I have came to the > >conclusion that it's not a good setup and to me it seems like a very > >dangerous layout for several reasons. > > This is a long way from what you claim below. > > I've established that you are a lying sack of shit and my only question is > whether your first statement is a lie or if your second statement is the > lie. > > Have a nice day. > > Don Burke > Chesapeake, Virginia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ed Street <blacknet@ph*.ne*> > To: Scott <scottk@nw*.co*>; Don Burke <donburke56@ne*.ne*> > Sent: 05 July, 2001 20:12 > Subject: RE: DIR setup > > > > Hello, > > > > See here's my typical dives now :) I do nothing but u/w photography and I > > climb in and out of the boat about 20 times, I don't need to waste time > > removing crap from my body. > > > > A typical dive is suit up, get in, spend about 10-15 mins tops burning up > > 2-3 camera rigs, getting out, removing the suit from waist up, drying off, > > change film in all rigs, suit back up and do it all over again. > > > > Like I said originaly I don't think that the dir concept is applicable in > > this case. Please correct me if i'm wrong. > > > > Ed > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@nw*.co*] > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:57 PM > > To: Ed Street; Don Burke > > Subject: Re: DIR setup > > > > > > The good stuff is 3/16 or 5mm "shock cord" availabel at REI and rock > > climbing places. It has a limit to how far it will stretch, > > making pulling it loose easier actually. After you cut it, burn the ends > off > > smooth, and simply put it under the mouthpiece cable tie, straight in on > > either side, and if you have to, you can give it a good yank, and the ends > > will slide out. > > > > Scott > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Burke" <donburke56@ne*.ne*> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "Ed Street" <blacknet@ph*.ne*> > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:14 AM > > Subject: Re: DIR setup > > > > > > > Ed, > > > > > > You're using tubing that is too strong or the wrong attachment or both. > > > > > > My reg will pop out of the necklace if I give it a good yank and I can > > break > > > the tubing easily. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Ed Street <blacknet@ph*.ne*> > > > To: Don Burke <donburke56@ne*.ne*> > > > Sent: 05 July, 2001 10:57 > > > Subject: RE: DIR setup > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > Another thing I have problems with is my training taught me that scuba > > > > equipment is expendible, and your life is not. You CAN ditch your rig > > w/ > > > no > > > > problem in a very short time. With the surgical tubing around your > neck > > > for > > > > your octo it makes it just another delay in ditching the rig. > Personaly > > I > > > > find it easier if the octo goes on the inflator hose, but that's me. > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Don Burke [mailto:donburke56@ne*.ne*] > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:53 AM > > > > To: Ed Street; techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > Subject: Re: DIR setup > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed, > > > > > > > > That's an easy fix. > > > > > > > > Use a traditional length octopus hose for that regulator. I don't > > recall > > > > the length, but it's something like 50 inches. It isn't much of an > > issue > > > > unless there are restricted spaces involved > > > > > > > > I dove that way until I got to a point where I could deal with a 7 > foot > > > long > > > > hose and the only reason I dive with a long hose now is to enhance my > > > > ability to rescue someone. > > > > > > > > The "around the neck" issue is more psychological than real. The long > > > hose > > > > comes from the right post regulator, down to the belt, up the center > of > > > the > > > > chest, behind the neck (left to right) and to the second stage in your > > > > mouth. > > > > > > > > There is no hose at your throat. If someone grabs the long hose, they > > > will > > > > be pulling on your jaw and your belt, not your throat. > > > > > > > > Don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Ed Street <blacknet@ph*.ne*> > > > > To: Don Burke <donburke56@ne*.ne*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Sent: 04 July, 2001 21:35 > > > > Subject: RE: DIR setup > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > The part that gives me trouble is the long hose. I understand why > it's > > > > there > > > > > and purpose etc.. but it's location irks me. Wraping around the > neck > > is > > > > > just asking for trouble if someone yanks it from behind and you'll > be > > > > > strangled quickly, thus having 2 incapacitated divers. I don't have > a > > > > > solution but I see it as a serious problem as you have NO idea how > > > person > > > > X > > > > > will act in a panic situation untill they freak. It may not even be > > > > someone > > > > > that's in your group as it could be a neighboring group of divers in > > the > > > > > area. > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Don Burke [mailto:donburke56@ne*.ne*] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:45 PM > > > > > To: Ed Street; techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > > Subject: Re: DIR setup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Ed Street <blacknet@ph*.ne*> > > > > > > > > > > > Well if you did actually know what your talking about instead of > > > > > sprouting > > > > > > crap about me you would know that I HAVE tried it and I didn't > like > > it > > > > nor > > > > > > will I use it again as in my case it makes absolutely NO sence to > > use > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What parts of DIR gave you trouble? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > > > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > > > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > > > http://www.netzero.net > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > http://www.netzero.net > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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