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Jim, this guy is a lying asshole - Claudia even put that part of the discussion in her report. Maybe somebody can ask Mouth what agency Renaker teaches for ( IANTD ) - he is very proud of his stance on "knowing when to leave your buddy", and he has posted repeatedly about it with this idiot Mouth defending him all the way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> To: "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: FW: accident > > From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:16:32 -0400 > To: <cobber@ci*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > Subject: Re: accident > > As you understand it it is as usual wrong IANTD does not teach abandon your > buddy. > > In our standards it states > > ยท On any occasion a student requires assistance, the instructor and any dive > master or dive supervisor will make every reasonable effort to assist or > rescue the student. The instructor will be expected to continue an assist or > rescue attempt until it is either successful or it becomes apparent that to > continue will result in unreasonably endangering the rescuers life or > endanger other students or members of the dive team. > > You can take that anyway you wish, > > Also Claudia did ascend quite a way with Garrett before letting him go up. > It is highly likely that had she surfaced and worked with him she also would > have been in a critical state of DCS . If you read the literature those who > experience explosive DCS do not fare well. So it was her logical decision > not to go all the way to the surface. > > I think decisions of this sort have to be made by an individual as there is > no way to make a standard as to the risk of death or injury and individual > must make. It is all due to the situation at he time. > > Jim as you are such a high powered diver would you omit one hour of deco > from the 60 foot stop and go to the surface? a simple yes or no will suffice > > tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> > To: <cobber@ci*.co*>; <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; > <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:57 AM > Subject: Re: accident > > > > Jim & Tom- > > It appears as if I have been accidentally cc'ed into this thread. Please > > omit my e-mail address from further e-mail discussion on this topic. > > Many thanks, > > Mike > > > > > > >From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> > > >To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Michael Barnette > > ><aocfishman@ho*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, Tech Diver > > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >Subject: Re: accident > > >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:41:13 -0400 > > > > > >I am confused about the part when is the best time to abandon your buddy.. > > >Tom, as I understand it you teach buddy abandonment in IANTD classes, as > it > > >is better for one person to die than for both. Personally I think it > would > > >be better to teach something more along the lines of its best for nobody > to > > >die in the first place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. > After > > >all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then.. > > > > > >Anyway, Did this buddy team do proper prior planning and decided that if > > >one > > >or the other drops into a hypoxic delusional state that the buddy then > > >assumes the other is a gonner and gets the hell out of the way? Or did > the > > >situation call for abandonment for drysuit problems stemming from hypoxia > > >induced hallucinations? What is the IANTD official abandonment plan for > > >this > > >situation with rebreathers or drysuits? Or in this situation with a known > > >problematic rebreather and drysuit is the abandonment plan based on a > > >combination of the two? > > > > > >I also notice that the abandonment plan continued on the surface. I don't > > >understand why IWR was not practiced even though they had several hours > to > > >think the problem over. > > > > > >Please discuss the IANDT every man for himself policy and if it's just > for > > >underwater or really does extend to the surface. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > > > From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > > > > Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > > > > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:51 -0400 > > > > To: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*>, > <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > > > > Subject: accident > > > > > > > > Accident Report in Regard to Garrets Death > > > > This is one of the rare times we have a detailed accident report to > > >review: > > > > Saturday June 23, 19:05, Garrett and Claudia started a dive to 300 > feet > > >at > > > > Mukilteo, WA. The dive included a swim of 15 minutes down a gradual > > >slope to > > > > the planned 300-foot depth where 5 minutes were spent. The dive was > > >planned > > > > with software dive tables. Both knew the dive site very well. > > > > Both were diving their inspiration units that had passed all pre-dive > > > > checks. Onboard tanks were full (8/60 and O2), scrubber fresh (see > > >below). > > > > Also, they were carrying an Al80 (10/50) and an Al40 (O2) as bailout > > >each, > > > > equipped with inflator hoses, gauges, and second stage. > > > >> From descent to ascent, including the deep stops, everything went > > >smoothly > > > > like usual. > > > > After leaving the 100 ft stop to 60 feet (20 ft/min) Garrett started > to > > > > display he was having a problem. > > > > The Inspiration was functioning correctly and there were no PO2 > > >problems, > > > > nor other CCR related problems. The after-market ADV was disengaged as > > >it > > > > always was on ascent. No alarms, no malfunctions were taking place. > > > > Claudia: Starting at 100 feet, he was suddenly behind me, not next to > me > > >or > > > > slightly in front. I looked back and saw him getting rid of occasional > > >water > > > > in the breathing hose (normal, although he usually did not do it on > > >ascent, > > > > rather at the stop). He seemed to be struggling slightly with > > >'something'. > > > > (When someone had problems of any kind, they would stop and the buddy > > >would > > > > stop as well. In this case, although slightly slower, Garrett did not > > >stop, > > > > and no other communication indicated a serious problem, yet.) > > > > Claudia: Then, arrived at the 60 ft stop, the communication was > strange > > >to > > > > non-existent. All I understood, other than that he was getting in more > > >and > > > > more distress, was that his dry suit was not as quickly deflated. He > > >showed > > > > me that with opening the wrist seal slightly and bubbles coming out. > > >Because > > > > of the warm neck hood, it's very hard to open the neck seal that way, > > >and > > > > Garrett chose not to. " > > > > Garrett presented more problems with buoyancy and a look of distress, > > >and > > > > surprise. After we had spent some time trying to stop the ascent by > > > > releasing gas and swimming down - I could not get to the dry suit > > >inflator > > > > to detach it (although nothing indicated a runaway inflator) and > worked > > >on > > > > the BC inflator - Garrett stopped kicking and continued to the > surface. > > >He > > > > was just floating up, looking down to me. That look said that he knew > > >what > > > > was going to happen, and I did too." > > > > (The longest deco in my life (60 minutes according to tables), on top > a > > > > stomach barotrauma that made breathing very hard.) > > > > Comment: This is what we actually talked about with Leon yesterday > > > > afternoon: Gary never really liked his deflator that does not have a > > >rest > > > > when fully opened, and together with the undergarment, it seemed > > >difficult > > > > to release the Argon in a timely manner. However, I have never seen > him > > > > having problems before. > > > > > > > > According to a person at the surface that came to help, Garrett went > to > > >the > > > > boat ramp and climbed out of the water. He then collapsed on the boat > > >ramp, > > > > and the guy pulled him from the ramp up. > > > > > > > > Garrett said something about his dry suit to this person. He had him > > >call > > > > 911, told him about his buddy doing deco and to take care of her, and > > >had > > > > him help set up everything to breathe O2 until the ambulance would > > >arrive. > > > > He breathed oxygen until his onboard O2 was empty, and his stage / > > >bailout > > > > O2 to 1700 psi by the time the ambulance arrived to pick him up. > > > > (Throughout the dive an ordeal. There was no alarm or even 'sanity > > >break' at > > > > any time. The scrubber was okay. Mine was new, his had 54 minutes on > > >prior > > > > to the dive.) > > > > (Tom's comment) I think it is important that he made a conscious > > >decision > > > > not to descend back to his stop in the water and Garrett was fully > aware > > >of > > > > the problems with an explosive decompression, so it would lead one to > > >think > > > > other factors many be involved. He also had adequate OC gas to do a > deco > > > > procedure, had OC gas been needed. > > > > Claudia: We had talked about situations like that before and had he > been > > > > able to, he would have resumed his deco after fixing whatever problem > he > > > > had. I did not like the idea of leaving him alone when we discussed > it, > > >but > > > > understand that otherwise we both would have been killed, and he never > > > > wanted that to happen. In a similar situation, knowing that we were > > >close to > > > > the boat ramp on a Saturday evening with many people around, I would > > >have > > > > expected for him to stay down as well. A hard decision I never wanted > to > > > > have to make. > > > > At the hospital where he also commented about his dry suit and then > fell > > > > unconscious after 5 minutes, due to his condition (good ECG at first, > > >but a > > > > drop to 40 over 20) he was treated for a heart attack (while explosive > > >DSC > > > > is life threatening, it was secondary to the seriousness of the heart > > >attack > > > > in the judgment of the attending physicians, and it is difficult if > not > > > > impossible to fully address the heart condition while in a chamber) > for > > >5 > > > > hours prior to being placed in the chamber. 20 minutes into the > chamber > > > > treatment Garrett arrested and died. > > > > Tom: Garrett was a really good friend and his loss saddens me greatly.. > > >He > > > > had a tremendous amount of time on the inspiration (460 hours plus) > and > > >was > > > > the most active instructor we have had on the west coast. And maybe > the > > >most > > > > active inspiration instructor in the USA. We have shared many dives, > > >deep > > > > dives and recently he and Claudia went on a Blue Hole trip with > several > > > > others and myself. He was extremely competent and safety orientated. > In > > >fact > > > > during a training program when he was doing his IT and Martin was > doing > > >his > > > > instructors and Vicki her diver rating on the inspiration we hammered > > >out > > > > sequencing. On the skills that are now taught in the IANTD Inspiration > > > > course. So he has contributed very much to our training programs and > to > > > > rebreather diving safety overall. > > > > > > > > Patti, IANTD and I wish for Garrett the happiest after life possible > and > > > > know his energy will always be with those he cared for. > > > > > > > >> From everything from observations to the medical reaction and > diagnosis > > >at > > > > he hospital it would have lead one to accept that Garrett had a heart > > > > attack. > > > > > > > > True without the complication of an explosive decompression he may > have > > >had > > > > a higher probability of surviving. > > > > > > > > BUT after his body was reviewed by the ME the following was found > > > > > > > > Claudia: According to the examiner, no enzymes could be built within > the > > > > time frame of 5-6 'alive' hours that would let trace a heart attack, > and > > > > they were not found. The final report may be shared with me in about > 6-8 > > > > weeks. This morning, two friends of ours, and students of Garrett's, > Ken > > > > Rymal and Dave Hancock, and I were explaining the gear to the > examiners > > >to > > > > shed some light for them on the subject. We tested the unit in front > of > > > > them, and everything worked properly. > > > > > > > > Garrett and I were to get married 5 July, and had many good plans for > > > > training and service, and just going diving all over the place. After > > > > talking to Leon that afternoon, we produced even more ideas while > > >driving > > > > from the lunch place up North to Mukilteo. Except for the harsh and > > >unfair > > > > end, it was one of, of not the happiest weekend we had ever spent. > > > > > > > > Tom: questions that remain: > > > > 1. What caused Garret to make the decision not to solve the problem in > > >water > > > > (maybe due to physiological stress if fact he was having a physical > > >problem > > > > as thought by the doctors ) > > > > 2. Why once on the surface he elected not to return to the stops after > > > > dealing with any other problems (again suggesting there was something > > >else > > > > taking place) > > > > 3. Why was he not put in the chamber earlier, (as stated by the > > >attending > > > > Doctor a heart attack but according to the ME no evidence of a heart > > >attack > > > > > > > > So we may or may not discover the answers to these as well as what if > > >any > > > > role a problem with the dry suit may or may not have had on this > > >accident. > > > > > > > > We do know it was not CCR related. And it appears that there was a > > > > physiological problem taking place that influenced Garrett to allow > > >himself > > > > to go to the surface and to elect not to return to decompression. > > > > It is sad that he was not placed in the chamber immediately as that > > >would > > > > have definitely increased the probability of his survival of the > > > > decompression issue. But the attending doctors (s) had to make a > > >decision > > > > based on what they perceived to be most life threatening. > > > > > > > > So we are still left with many questions > > > > > > > > We do know Garrett was extremely competent as a diver and highly > > >experienced > > > > on the inspiration > > > > > > > > Respectfully > > > > Claudia Milz and Tom Mount > > > >> From Leon Scamahorn > > > > I am at a loss. Garrett, Claudia, and I had just finished having > lunch > > >and > > > > talking about the Meg. I was looking forward to working with Garrett > and > > > > diving with him and Claudia. > > > > > > > > I wish everyone to know that I believe Garrett was a fine instructor > and > > > > probably the best one and diver in the country on the Inspiration. I > > >will > > > > feel his loss, and I think that we all will feel his loss in the > diving > > > > industry. He has been a positive influence to all those that > understood > > >him. > > > > > > > > Claudia, you have my best wishes. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Leon Scamahorn > > > > CEO Innerspace Systems Corp. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> > > > > To: <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:04 PM > > > > Subject: Update on Florida job announcement > > > > > > > > > > > >> I thought this might be of interest to the list... > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> Mike > > > >> Association of Underwater Explorers > > > >> http://www.mikey.net/aue > > > >> > > > >>> Important Update on Underwater Archaeology Employment Opportunity > > > >>> > > > >>> The Florida Department of State position for an Archaeological Field > > > >>> Supervisor within the Bureau of Archaeological Research that was > > > > advertised > > > >>> on 5/30/01 has been changed to Archaeological Field Assistant. Due > to > > > >>> recent > > > >>> personnel changes and a clarification of policy, the Bureau of Human > > > >>> Resources decided to delete the Supervisor position and add the > > >Assistant > > > >>> position. Nonetheless, the starting salary will remain the same as > > >the > > > >>> Supervisor position ($22,045.68). The new Assistant position is now > > > > being > > > >>> officially advertised. > > > >>> > > > >>> This career service position with full benefits represents a rare > > > >>> opportunity in Florida for a trained individual who seeks government > > > >>> service > > > >>> employment to pursue investigation, assessment, and documentation of > > > >>> submerged cultural resources for the public benefit. > > > >>> > > > >>> Important Note: Those individuals who already have submitted > > > > applications > > > >>> for the now-defunct Supervisor position will automatically be > > >considered > > > >>> for > > > >>> the Assistant position. The applications have been retained for > > > >>> consideration, and one need not apply again. > > > >>> > > > >>> For those individuals who have not yet made application, there is an > > >open > > > >>> period of 14 days (June 25 through July 9) during which applications > > >are > > > >>> being accepted. Interested applicants should fill out a State of > > >Florida > > > >>> employment application and send it to the address below as soon as > > > >>> possible. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Bureau of Human Resources > > > >>> Florida Department of State > > > >>> 107 W. Gaines Street, Room 266 > > > >>> Collins Building > > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > > >>> > > > >>> Applications must be received by 5 p.m. on July 9th, 2001. > > > >>> > > > >>> The official announcement can be viewed at: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >http://www.myflorida.com/oraweb/owa/www_cv.jobvac.detail?pvac_key=1042&preg > > > > i > > > >>> on=W > > > >>> > > > >>> The position announcement also will be posted on the Bureau's web > site > > > > at: > > > >>> http://www.dos.state.fl.us/dhr/bar/jobs.html > > > >>> > > > >>> This posting outlines (a) a description of the position, (b) minimum > > > >>> qualifications (c) preferred applicant qualifications, and (d) how > to > > > >>> obtain a State of Florida employment application by mail or from the > > > >>> Internet. > > > >>> > > > >>> (a) Job Description for Archaeological Field Supervisor > > > >>> The incumbent is to assist in the management of state-wide submerged > > > >>> cultural resources. The incumbent will perform a range of functions > > > > which > > > >>> include conducting field surveys and site inspections; preparing and > > > >>> presenting reports of archaeological findings in written and > > >illustrated > > > >>> form; monitoring and supervising exploration and salvage contracts > and > > > >>> related files; maintaining underwater site information databases; > and > > > >>> maintaining boats, vehicles, and underwater equipment. The position > is > > > >>> located within the Tallahassee office of the Bureau, but requires > > > > periodic > > > >>> and extended travel throughout the state. > > > >>> > > > >>> (b) The minimum professional qualifications require completion of a > > > >>> training > > > >>> program in scuba diving techniques and one year (or 30 hours) of > scuba > > > >>> diving experience; or one year of archaeological field experience; > or > > > >>> completion of 30 semester or 45 quarter hours of college coursework > > >which > > > >>> includes two courses in anthropology or archaeology. > > > >>> > > > >>> (c) Preferred qualifications include an undergraduate degree with a > > >major > > > >>> in > > > >>> anthropology, archaeology, or related field and two years > professional > > > >>> experience, as well as a divemaster or instructor diving > > >certification. > > > >>> > > > >>> Successful candidates shall be able to demonstrate their experience > > >and > > > >>> expertise in the following: > > > >>> > > > >>> Knowledge of underwater archaeological theory and methodology; of > > > > cultural > > > >>> resource management issues, policies, and laws; of underwater survey > > >and > > > >>> excavation techniques; and of remote sensing marine survey > technology. > > > >>> > > > >>> Skills in public relations through personal and professional > contacts; > > >in > > > >>> underwater archaeological recording and mapping; in diving > techniques > > >and > > > >>> equipment; in the use of remote sensing survey equipment to conduct > > > >>> professional level work; and in small boat handling and general > marine > > > >>> maintenance and repair > > > >>> > > > >>> Ability to work independently in the field and in report > preparation. > > > >>> Ability to work well with land managers, fishermen, sport divers, > > > >>> exploration and salvage contractors, and the general public. > > >Experience > > > >>> with remote sensing survey work and underwater site mapping. > > >Experience > > > >>> and > > > >>> skills in small boat handling. Experience and skills in maintenance > > >and > > > >>> repair of marine-related equipment. > > > >>> > > > >>> Ability to design and implement archaeological research of submerged > > > > sites; > > > >>> to conduct historical research; to use personal computer software; > and > > >to > > > >>> write professional reports. Desire to travel throughout the state > on > > >a > > > >>> regular basis. > > > >>> > > > >>> (d) A State of Florida employment application form can be obtained > by > > > >>> calling or writing to: > > > >>> > > > >>> Bureau of Human Resources > > > >>> Collins Building, Room 266 > > > >>> 107 W. Gaines Street > > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > > >>> Phone (850)245-6550 > > > >>> > > > >>> or, after noting the deadline, > > > >>> > > > >>> You may download the application form from the Internet by going to > > >this > > > >>> address: > > > >>> http://www.state.fl.us/dms/hrm/jobsdirect/application.html > > > >>> You also can apply online for the position at this address. > > > >>> > > > >>> You may wish to send photocopies of the application form, a > > >professional > > > >>> vita, and any other supporting materials to the address below for > > > >>> simultaneous review. > > > >>> > > > >>> For further information, contact: > > > >>> > > > >>> Roger C. Smith, Ph.D. > > > >>> State Underwater Archaeologist > > > >>> Bureau of Archaeological Research > > > >>> 500 South Bronough St. > > > >>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > > > >>> (850) 245-6444 > > > >>> rsmith@ma*.do*.st*.fl*.us* > > > >> > > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > >> > > > >> ============================================================ > > > >> To contact the list administrator, email > > > >> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > > >> listserv@mi*.ne* > > > >> and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > > >> unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > To contact the list administrator, email > > > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ============================================================ > > To contact the list administrator, email > > Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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