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I agree, once a sport ceases being fun then you know it's time to find yourself another diversion. Jim On Monday, July 2, 2001 3:51 PM, N.S. <nsnopper@pa*.ca*> wrote: > Hi Jim: >I just posted the following message to techdiver: >Hello again: >Well, I had a few replies to my recent email, referring me to Jim Cobb's previous >tongue in cheek posts. Mr. Cobb, my sincerest apologies for not immediately >recognizing the ironic humour. But then again, you really drove your point home >with me. >I guess my Humour Switch was turned off by the talk of recent deaths on this >group. I also recently finished "The Last Dive" by Bernie Chowdhury. >It's only diving. We are supposed to be doing it for enjoyment. And these deaths >are senseless. >Sincerely >Norm Nopper > >Please allow me a few additional words: >I am in absolute agreement with you. This is a dangerous sport, and we can only >mitigate risks, never eliminate them. And the way to manage that risk is through >time tested, thoroughly researched methods. >For most of my time in this "hobby" - and I use the quotes because SCUBA is not >like coin collecting - I kept playing with my gear configuration because it was never >"quite right". I always thought that it was unwieldy, and illogical - your knife on your >leg, your octopus God knows where, and almost everything out of reach in an >emergency. About 18 months ago, I finally tossed all of my old diving crap and >went DIR. What I liked most about is is that EVERYTHING is within my reach >during an emergency. >I too am shocked by the developments in the sport of diving, such as groups >offering to teach "solo diving", rebreather diving, "when to leave you buddy" diving >. . . When I first learned how to dive, I was told to remember 3 simple rules: >Always keep breathing (never hold your breath), Always dive with a buddy, and >Always have Fun. >The last rule is not frivolous. It means listen to your fears. If you are not having fun, >then your mind is telling you that maybe, just maybe, you are doing something >dangerous, and should stop. Either people have stopped having fear, or they have >stopped listening to their fear. Either way, we are seeing increasingly risky >behaviour out of people. And it makes not sense. >And now we are adding to the mix new technologies such as rebreathers and other >gadgets. This just adds additional levels of complexity to diving. The more complex >the equipment, the more that can go wrong. I have had 11 years of diving, and I >won't go near the stuff. Even guys like Trey, who leave me in the dust with respect >to experience, are saying that the technology is not robust enough, and that unless >you have a good reason for using a rebreather - DON'T. >And we have groups "teaching" relative neophytes how to use this equipment. In >my opinion, they are giving their students just enough skill to kill themselves. Or, to >use the old expression: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. >Anyway, I gladly accept the title of "Buckethead" for not immediately seeing the >irony in you post. And, I always provide everyone with the benefit of the >doubt. After all, I did ask you to clarify your message for me. >Obviously your intention was to provoke action, and a reaction, regarding this >important topic. And if I am the idiot who fell for it - well, if it calls attention to your >original post, and provokes discussion, and ultimately saves lives, I will carry the >title of Buckethead with pride. >Sincerely, >Norm Nopper >Jim Cobb wrote: >Christ, I used to call people like you "bucketheads", I guess I >will have to bring that term back. Take the fucking bucket off >your head, Norm, and smell the roses. >The fact is that this is a dangerous sport and you would truly >have to have a full-time, galvanised, farm-grade, bucket >thoroughly planted on your cabeza to not see that. No, people >are not supposed to die but there are so many bad instrokters, >bad training organization and morons, half-wits and imbeciles out there it boggles the mind. >It is also amazing how people just hand cash over to these >people and take absolutely no initiative to find out exactly >what they are getting involved in. That you have taken the time >to join Techdiver is a good first move, Norm, but the fact is >that there that IANTD and TDI have very expensive insurance >policies which are used to pay off the families of the people >who have handed over the cash and croaked in the process. >If the industry attitude was NOT "After all this is technical >diving and people are supposed to die now and then." then why >bother having the policies? Why even stay in business at all? >This is called "rationalisation" Norm, and I see it all the >time. Read just about anything by Brett Gilliam and you will see this attitude. > Jim >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ ><http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/> > >From: "N.S. (Norm) Nopper" <nsnopper@pa*.ca*> >Organization: NSN Lakeside Consulting Group >Reply-To: nsnopper@pa*.ca* >Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:30:34 -0400 >To: techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: "After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." > >"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." >(Some recent wisdom offered here on techdiver) >Hello Everyone: >I am a long time lurker on this listserver group, and until >today I enjoyed the simple pleasure of sitting back and >LISTENING to what people had to say here. I agree that that is >a lot of garbage and flaming on this forum, but you simply have >to be selective in what you read, and filter out the noise. >During the 3 or more years that I have been reading the posts >to this group, I have come to respect the viewpoints and advice >of Trey and his group at WKPP. Like many on this list, I was >very uncomfortable with the way in which Trey expressed >himself. I even sent him a private email with a few words of >advice on how to make his message more positive. In response, >he sent me a friendly email of thanks. >HOWEVER, today I am forced to conclude that Trey is absolutely >justified in his communication approach. I became convinced of >this when I read this little "gem of wisdom" in a recent email by Jim Cobb: >"Personally I think it would be better to teach something more >along the lines of its best for nobody to die in the first >place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. After all >this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then." >(The bold lettering is my emphasis.) >ARE YOU KIDDING? Mr. Cobb, please tell us that you are being >facetious, and don't really believe this. Put a smiley on it. >Give us a sign that you're not serious. >If this is truly the philosophy that some "Diver Training >Organizations" (and I use the term loosely) are espousing, then >they should be shut down immediately. >I took up diving back in 1990 for pleasure and relaxation. I >have all of my own equipment, and I have the best (Halcyon back >plate and wing, Apeks Tek 50). In all my diving, I have broken >below 100 feet exactly twice, because I have no need or desire >to go deeper. I enjoy wreck diving in the Great Lakes. I have >no desire to enter 9 km into caves, or go to 1100 feet in >depth, or push the envelope in any other way. I leave that to >those who have the time and motivation to train, train, train, >and re-train to learn and develop the techniques to Do It Right. >I can see that we have unqualified people on this list who are >trying to push that envelope. And worse, they are recruiting >others - under the facade of offering advanced training - to push that envelope too. >If I push the envelope and die, it's suicide. >If I encourage you to push the envelope and you die, it's >murder (if not in the legal sense, then certainly morally). >Sincerely, >N.S. (Norm) Nopper >PS: For the love of God, Mr. Cobb, please tell us you didn't mean this. >"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to >die now and then." > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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