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Like my previous post about leaving your buddy that got some people
confused, Jim is being sarcastic. Re-read his post, can't believe you got
it confused and thought he was serious!
Art.
-----Original Message-----
From: N.S. (Norm) Nopper [mailto:nsnopper@pa*.ca*]
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 8:31 AM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: "After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die
now and then."
"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and
then."
(Some recent wisdom offered here on techdiver)
Hello Everyone:
I am a long time lurker on this listserver group, and until today I enjoyed
the simple pleasure of sitting back and LISTENING to what people had to say
here. I agree that that is a lot of garbage and flaming on this forum, but
you simply have to be selective in what you read, and filter out the noise.
During the 3 or more years that I have been reading the posts to this group,
I have come to respect the viewpoints and advice of Trey and his group at
WKPP. Like many on this list, I was very uncomfortable with the way in which
Trey expressed himself. I even sent him a private email with a few words of
advice on how to make his message more positive. In response, he sent me a
friendly email of thanks.
HOWEVER, today I am forced to conclude that Trey is absolutely justified in
his communication approach. I became convinced of this when I read this
little "gem of wisdom" in a recent email by Jim Cobb:
"Personally I think it would be better to teach something more along the
lines of its best for nobody to die in the first place, but I know that's
totally unrealistic of me. After all this is technical diving and people are
supposed to die now and then."
(The bold lettering is my emphasis.)
ARE YOU KIDDING? Mr. Cobb, please tell us that you are being facetious, and
don't really believe this. Put a smiley on it. Give us a sign that you're
not serious.
If this is truly the philosophy that some "Diver Training Organizations"
(and I use the term loosely) are espousing, then they should be shut down
immediately.
I took up diving back in 1990 for pleasure and relaxation. I have all of my
own equipment, and I have the best (Halcyon back plate and wing, Apeks Tek
50). In all my diving, I have broken below 100 feet exactly twice, because I
have no need or desire to go deeper. I enjoy wreck diving in the Great
Lakes. I have no desire to enter 9 km into caves, or go to 1100 feet in
depth, or push the envelope in any other way. I leave that to those who have
the time and motivation to train, train, train, and re-train to learn and
develop the techniques to Do It Right.
I can see that we have unqualified people on this list who are trying to
push that envelope. And worse, they are recruiting others - under the facade
of offering advanced training - to push that envelope too.
If I push the envelope and die, it's suicide.
If I encourage you to push the envelope and you die, it's murder (if not in
the legal sense, then certainly morally).
Sincerely,
N.S. (Norm) Nopper
PS: For the love of God, Mr. Cobb, please tell us you didn't mean this.
"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and
then."
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>L=
ike my
previous post </span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>about leaving your buddy =
</span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>that got some =
</span></font></span><span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:#993366'>people
</span></font></span><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>confused, Jim is being sarcastic.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">
</span>Re-read his post, can’t believe you got it confused and =
thought he was
serious!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A=
rt.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> N.S. (Norm)
Nopper
[mailto:nsnopper@pa*.ca*]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July
02, =
2001 8:31
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
techdiver@aquanaut.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> "After
all =
this is
technical diving and people are supposed to die now and =
then."</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:
bold'>"After all this is technical diving and people are supposed =
to die
now and then."</span></font></b><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'>
<br>
(Some recent wisdom offered here on techdiver) </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hello Everyone: =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I am a long time lurker on this =
listserver
group, and until today I enjoyed the simple pleasure of sitting back =
and
LISTENING to what people had to say here. I agree that that is a lot of =
garbage
and flaming on this forum, but you simply have to be selective in what =
you
read, and filter out the noise. </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>During the 3 or more years that =
I have
been reading the posts to this group, I have come to respect the =
viewpoints and
advice of Trey and his group at WKPP. Like many on this list, I was =
very
uncomfortable with the way in which Trey expressed himself. I even sent =
him a
private email with a few words of advice on how to make his message =
more
positive. In response, he sent me a friendly email of thanks. =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>HOWEVER, today I am forced to =
conclude
that Trey is absolutely justified in his communication approach. I =
became
convinced of this when I read this little "gem of wisdom" in =
a recent
email by Jim Cobb: </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>"Personally I think it =
would be
better to teach something more along the lines of its best for nobody =
to die in
the first place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>After all this is technical diving and =
people are
supposed to die now and then.</span></b>" <br>
(The bold lettering is my emphasis.) </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>ARE YOU KIDDING? Mr. Cobb, =
please tell us
that you are being facetious, and don't really believe this. Put a =
smiley on
it. Give us a sign that you're not serious. </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If this is truly the philosophy =
that some
"Diver Training Organizations" (and I use the term loosely) =
are
espousing, then they should be shut down immediately. =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I took up diving back in 1990 =
for pleasure
and relaxation. I have all of my own equipment, and I have the best =
(Halcyon
back plate and wing, Apeks Tek 50). In all my diving, I have broken =
below 100
feet exactly twice, because I have no need or desire to go deeper. I =
enjoy
wreck diving in the Great Lakes. I have <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>no
desire</span></i> to enter 9 km into caves, or go to 1100 feet in =
depth, or
push the envelope in any other way. I leave that to those who have the =
time and
motivation to train, train, train, and re-train to learn and develop =
the
techniques to Do It Right. </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I can see that we have =
unqualified people
on this list who are trying to push that envelope. And worse, they are
recruiting others - under the facade of offering advanced training - to =
push
that envelope too. </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If I push the envelope and die, =
it's
suicide. </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If I encourage you to push the =
envelope
and you die, it's murder (if not in the legal sense, then certainly =
morally). </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Sincerely, <br>
N.S. (Norm) Nopper </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>PS: For the love of God, Mr. =
Cobb, please
tell us you didn't mean this. </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold'>"After all =
this is
technical diving and people are supposed to die now and =
then."</span></font></b><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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