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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0FD98.588FF6A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karla See notes below. -----Original Message----- From: Dogtrner1@ao*.co* [mailto:Dogtrner1@ao*.co*] Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 6:23 PM To: toddclagett1@ea*.ne* Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: Re: Long Hose Stuffing VS Hogarthian(Sp?) Todd, Ahhhh.....a civilized answer. I will take this point by point, and see if we can figure this out:)) << 1) The hose can not be re-stowed by YOU with now help from you buddy under water. Even if your buddy helps it becomes a huge CF.>> Ok, But theoritically(sp?) if you are having an out of air situation, you are getting out of the water? Right? not hanging out? If your buddy is having a problem with regs, the same should still hold true. I understand it's predominantly a restuffing problem. [David B. Widen] What about deco obligations and you no longer need the back gas because you are using deco gases except for the air break needs when on O2. << 2) Stuffing the hose puts undue wear on the hose, especially when some people leave it stuffed all the time even when not diving.>> THis is true. I do not(leave it stuffed when not diving) and I am also thinking of putting some intertube around my tanks. I use steel, so the rubbing is even more problematic, with my old 120. No paint on it. [David B. Widen] covering up your tank with tape, rubber or other material is just introducing even more trouble (unseen) from rust and corrosion - bad move. Also look at radius of bends and tension on the intermediate pressure hose (in other communities referred to as high pressure) - stress and failure points. << 3) Most people will go for the reg in their buddy's mouth when out of air and in a hurry to get air, it's just what seems to happen in an emergency because they know that reg works and it's easier to find that something bungeed to the side of a tank.>> Agreed, but why can't you stuff, and have your octo as your primary and your primary bungied? Actually that is what I do. [David B. Widen] Will it work - sure. Will it work smoothly all the time - no. Can the hose kink in an emergency - yes. Will it deploy as desired all the time (again in OOA or other emergency-not always) - no. Try a different option - it is loose and comfortable, easy to deploy. << 4) The reg you were just breathing (the long hose in your mouth) works for sure. Your out of air buddy may not get a working reg if he grabs something that is stuffed behind some bungee on a tank.>> See above. [David B. Widen] See above note. << 5) The easiest breathing reg will be the one you usually breathe and should be the one your buddy gets when he/she is slightly upset after an out of air situation. The stuffed reg wouldn't be as easy to breath because most people don't want their back up reg to free flow during the dive wasting gas.>> See above. <<6) You may not know it if you "stuffed" reg is free flowing because it is out of sight. If you breathe the long hose your backup is around your neck and you will definitely know if it free flows.>> See above, above, above:))) <<7) During wreck penetrations or cave dives the reg that is "stuffed" is vulnerable to being banged into the wreck/cave and therefore may get damaged. A damaged reg from a buddy may be all that is needed to send an out of air buddy into a real panic possibly getting both of you killed.>> Good point, one I had not thought of. [David B. Widen] On wrecks it can also get hung on monofilament & spider wire, or caves & wreck on cave line, etc. << 8) 7ft of hose dragging behind you becomes a serious snag hazard if the reg comes out of the bungee and you don't realize it.>> Again, good point:) << 9) I don't care how much you practice it, it is easier and quicker to hand off the long hose to you buddy and dip your head to get your backup that is around your neck. Stuffing is a huge CF just waiting for somebody to run out of air.>> CF? Cluster F...? Again tho, my long hose can be stuffed and still be used as my primary, while my primary is around my neck on a bungi. The problem for me resides, is that when I am having a problem with it either floating or tightening around my neck, then it is a danger to me. [David B. Widen] You can restow the extra hose under you waist belt so it is not floating around. << It sounds like maybe you don't have the reg routed as it should be. I never have any issues with the long hose around my neck. It should be on the right post (right side of your body as you wear the doubles), go straight down and tuck under your canister light and then across your chest and around your neck. The back up should come off of the left post and cross behind your head and should be secured to your neck with a piece of shock cord or bungee. >> I don't use a cnaister light, but I do hook it under a waist pack on my bc. Today,seemed to be a good day with no problems. SO.....Recreational dive. However,it is generally more of a problem than a help, to me. But I don't give up easily, so will keep trying! Karla, Dog Training By Karla Ft. Lauderdale, FL -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0FD98.588FF6A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3DWindows-1252"> <TITLE>Re: Long Hose Stuffing VS Hogarthian(Sp?)</TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D091444420-25062001>Karla=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D091444420-25062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D091444420-25062001>See=20 notes below.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D091444420-25062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dogtrner1@ao*.co*=20 [mailto:Dogtrner1@ao*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, June 24, 2001 6:23=20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> toddclagett1@ea*.ne*<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20 techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Long Hose Stuffing VS=20 Hogarthian(Sp?)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain = format --> <P><FONT size=3D2>Todd,<BR><BR>Ahhhh.....a civilized answer. I = will take=20 this point by point, and see if we<BR>can figure this=20 out:))<BR><BR><<<BR> 1) The hose can not be re-stowed by = YOU with=20 now help from you buddy under<BR> water. Even if your buddy = helps=20 it becomes a huge CF.>><BR><BR>Ok, But theoritically(sp?) if you = are=20 having an out of air situation, you are<BR>getting out of the = water? =20 Right? not hanging out? If your buddy is having<BR>a = problem with=20 regs, the same should still hold true.<BR>I understand it's = predominantly a=20 restuffing problem.<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>[David B. Widen] What about deco obligations = and you=20 no longer need the back gas because you are using deco gases = except for=20 the air break needs when = on O2. </FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><< 2)=20 Stuffing the hose puts undue wear on the hose, especially when=20 some<BR> people leave it stuffed all the time even when not=20 diving.>><BR><BR>THis is true. I do not(leave it stuffed = when not=20 diving) and I am also<BR>thinking of putting some intertube around my=20 tanks. I use steel, so the<BR>rubbing is even more problematic, = with my=20 old 120. No paint on it.<BR><SPAN = class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>[David B. Widen] covering up your tank with tape, = rubber or=20 other material is just introducing even more trouble (unseen) from = rust and=20 corrosion - bad move. Also look at radius of bends and tension on the=20 intermediate pressure hose (in other communities referred to as high = pressure)=20 - stress and failure points.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20 class=3D091444420-25062001> </SPAN><BR><BR><< 3) Most = people will go=20 for the reg in their buddy's mouth when out of air<BR> and in a = hurry to=20 get air, it's just what seems to happen in an = emergency<BR> because they=20 know that reg works and it's easier to find that = something<BR> bungeed to=20 the side of a tank.>><BR><BR>Agreed, but why can't you stuff, = and have=20 your octo as your primary and your<BR>primary bungied? = Actually=20 that is what I do.<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>[David B. Widen] Will it work - sure. Will it = work smoothly=20 all the time - no. Can the hose kink in an emergency - yes. Will = it=20 deploy as desired all the time (again in OOA or other emergency-not = always) -=20 no. Try a different option - it is loose and comfortable, easy to=20 deploy.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P><SPAN class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT = face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff></FONT> <P><BR><FONT size=3D2><< 4) The reg you were just breathing (the = long hose=20 in your mouth) works for<BR> sure. Your out of air buddy = may not=20 get a working reg if he grabs something<BR> that is stuffed = behind some=20 bungee on a tank.>><BR><BR>See above.<BR><BR><SPAN=20 class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>[David = B.=20 Widen] See above note.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D091444420-25062001> </SPAN><BR><< 5)=20 The easiest breathing reg will be the one you usually breathe and=20 should<BR> be the one your buddy gets when he/she is slightly = upset after=20 an out of air<BR> situation. The stuffed reg wouldn't be as = easy to=20 breath because most<BR> people don't want their back up reg to = free flow=20 during the dive wasting<BR> gas.>><BR><BR>See=20 above. <BR><BR> <<6) You may not know it if you = "stuffed" reg=20 is free flowing because it is<BR> out of sight. If you = breathe the=20 long hose your backup is around your neck<BR> and you will = definitely=20 know if it free flows.>><BR><BR>See above, above,=20 above:)))<BR><BR><<7) During wreck penetrations or cave = dives the=20 reg that is "stuffed" is<BR> vulnerable to being banged into the=20 wreck/cave and therefore may get<BR> damaged. A damaged reg = from a=20 buddy may be all that is needed to send an<BR> out of air buddy = into a=20 real panic possibly getting both of you killed.>><BR><BR>Good = point, one=20 I had not thought of.<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>[David B. Widen] On wrecks it can also get = hung on=20 monofilament & spider wire, or caves & wreck on cave line,=20 etc.</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><< 8) 7ft of hose dragging behind you = becomes=20 a serious snag hazard if the reg<BR> comes out of the bungee and = you=20 don't realize it.>><BR><BR>Again, good point:)<BR><BR><< = 9) I=20 don't care how much you practice it, it is easier and quicker to=20 hand<BR> off the long hose to you buddy and dip your head to get = your=20 backup that is<BR> around your neck. Stuffing is a huge CF = just=20 waiting for somebody to run<BR> out of air.>><BR><BR>CF? = Cluster=20 F...? Again tho, my long hose can be stuffed and still be = used<BR>as my=20 primary, while my primary is around my neck on a bungi.<BR><BR>The = problem for=20 me resides, is that when I am having a problem with it = either<BR>floating or=20 tightening around my neck, then it is a danger to me.<BR><BR><SPAN=20 class=3D091444420-25062001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>[David = B.=20 Widen] You can restow the extra hose under you waist belt so it = is not=20 floating around.</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><< It sounds like maybe = you don't=20 have the reg routed as it should be. I<BR>never<BR> have = any issues=20 with the long hose around my neck. It should be on = the<BR> right=20 post (right side of your body as you wear the doubles), go=20 straight<BR> down and tuck under your canister light and then = across your=20 chest and<BR> around your neck. The back up should come off = of the=20 left post and cross<BR> behind your head and should be secured to = your=20 neck with a piece of shock<BR> cord or bungee.<BR> = >><BR>I=20 don't use a cnaister light, but I do hook it under a waist pack on my=20 bc. <BR> Today,seemed to be a good day with no = problems. =20 SO.....Recreational dive.<BR><BR>However,it is generally more of a = problem=20 than a help, to me. But I don't<BR>give up easily, so will keep=20 trying!<BR><BR>Karla,<BR>Dog Training By Karla<BR>Ft. Lauderdale,=20 FL<BR>--<BR>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20 `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<BR>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20 = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BO DY></HTM= L> ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C0FD98.588FF6A0-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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