Hate legal wrangling, but threat of a lawsuit is probably the only way to
scare a bureaucratic organization into motion.

Cam

> From: Joel Markwell <joeldm@mi*.co*>
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:39:39 -0400
> To: "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Cc: Quest List <quest@gu*.co*>
> Subject: Re: Fatality/ Accident Reports / Contacts & Action
> 
> On 6/20/01 8:56 PM, "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*> wrote:
> 
>> Accident analysis
>> is a vital part. No one is asking for details on the throes of death,
>> but they do what to know what went wrong. I certainly don't see the
>> liability of releasing information of a recovery or investigation. In
>> every airplane crash, the NTSB will not only release the details of
>> the investigate, but they will also speculate as to anything unknown.
>> People keep dying form the same mistakes over and over and I can't
>> figure out why no one is learning a damn thing.
> 
> Michael,
> 
> I don't understand the reasoning. I applaud those people in the IUCRR who do
> the recoveries. It's a thankless job. But why are they sitting on this data?
> Jeff does a good job doing statistical reports with the data, but the facts,
> the minutiae, the details that could be instructive to divers remains
> hidden, the property of that organization.
> 
> I also don't understand why they think that they "own" that data -- if they
> do. I think it belongs to all cave and tech divers, not to some elite group
> that is very stingy in handing its pronouncements down from up above, at
> least that is my perception. That's not the way. Your example of the NTSB is
> a good one. They do the investigative work, run the numbers and publish an
> analysis and, as you say, they also extrapolate likely scenarios even where
> the facts are incomplete. And they don't just publish this data in some
> obscure journal, they hold a press conference and publish on their website
> and elsewhere.
> 
> The IUCRR has no such huge job here, they report on recoveries they make (or
> they are supposed to) based on the data collected at the site and any info
> that comes in. They are certainly not doing investigations on the scale of
> the NTSB and the exposure is far less, usually involving one or two families
> and associates, not hundreds of families, the airline, pilot's union,
> airplane manufacturer and all its hundreds of suppliers. There is just NO
> excuse for that data not being available to the diving public in a timely
> manner especially when there are people (I've had a couple of people contact
> me privately offering help) willing to do the transcription for nothing and
> follow all of their guidelines for doing so.
> 
> At my Recovery Class, I was introduced by the director as the person who
> would be transcribing these reports. Henry even went so far as to say how it
> would work, who would get the data first and how it would be given to me to
> create a final, sanitized (no names) report and that would be ultimately be
> published in some manner. None of it happened.
> 
> The IUCRR webmaster, who was very helpful and a friend of mine, was prepared
> to publish the reports and create a database out of my reports for
> publication on their website. Since no reports were created, no database was
> possible.
> 
> How do we get this info out of them? A petition? A lawsuit? What will it
> take? 
> 
> If any of you think this data should be released, please contact me and
> contact one of the officers of the IUCRR below and tell them:
> 
> Director: Henry Nicholson          henrynicholson@em*.ms*.co*
> Training Coordinator: Lamar Hires  lamar@di*.co*
> Webmaster: Robert Laird            rlaird@ca*.co*
> 
> You can find info about the regional coordinators for each state here:
> 
> http://www.iucrr.org/p_coords.htm
> 
> Is the Cavers list still up? If it is someone please post this over there.
> 
> Maybe I should just ignore this, realize that this is the "way we do it" and
> just accept that, not piss people off, not get angry about it and just go
> diving. But cave diving has given a lot to me and I think this is important.
> that data belongs to us.
> 
> JoeL
> 
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