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Trey
I am not going to try and justify something I don't believe in.
I just don't think that you will get all of those scuba divers who regularly
dive to 100fsw on **non-deco dives** to switch to 35% Helium because of cost
and gas availability (particularly in Europe). It is probably more
appropriate to recommend Nitrox 32 - 36%
Clearly, if people are running serious bottom times at 100fsw the issue is
different and a good choice would be to use a trimix to ease deco but I
honestly feel that in the normal world of weenie dives it is overkill. Do
GUE dive 35% He bottom mix on standard dives in Manatee or Ginnie?
As a final thought all of my deep trimix wreck dives use EAD of less than
100fsw on the bottom with 50 / 100 deco mixes thanks to what I have learned
from this list.
Regards
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:23
To: Mark Dixon
Cc: Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
Subject: RE: deep air Please help
No, moron, you need to get real. We dive all helium based gases - the
higher the helium the better: less impairment, no micorcirculatory damage
,easier deco, cleaner more complete deco , easier to breathe, and the
results speak for themselves. Only a complete idiot would believe that there
is any reason to use air. My bet is you can not give me a reason that is not
rife with pure ignorance. Give it a try.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dixon [mailto:jj@da*.co*]Mark Dixon
To: pina
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: deep air Please help
35% He at 100 ft - I'm sorry but I don't believe this. I'm no advocate
of deep air but somebody needs to get real here!
Regards
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: pina [mailto:pina3@be*.ne*]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 02:33
To: NyWrecker@ao*.co*; Techdiver
Subject: RE: deep air Please help
The 35% would be 21-35 and the 45% would be 18-45 (with the first
number being the oxygen). The important part is that the EAD is maintained
below 100 feet and the pp02max is below 1.4, and that HYPERoxic mixes are
not used in these ranges.
18% is not normoxic (21% is normoxic), but is accepted as such
generally. You shouldn't breathe it on the surface as a matter of practice.
You need to ditch this idiot instructor who was taking you to 150,
160, 180 on air (for what I assume must have been an Advanced Nitrox
Course). Do yourself a favor now and just take the rest of your training
from GUE http://www.gue.com The link on the website that says "Classroom"
talks about the courses. There is a GUE instructor that I know in NY - his
name is Bob Sherwood. His contact information is below.
Continuing with an instructor that is teaching you such dangerous
practices as deep air will not do you any good in further classes. The text
alone is faulty and error laden, but when combined with a poor instructor
becomes a complete waste of time and money as well as a personal danger. Do
not continue your training with this idiot just to do him a favor or because
you think he is a nice guy, do yourself a favor and get proper training.
Otherwise, you will just need to be retrained and retold later how
do do all the things safely that this idiot taught you to do unsafely, so
you might as well just get it taught to you properly the first time. The
current instructor would be teaching you improper deco mixes most likely,
too, like 80% or some other stupidity, not to mention the dangerously
inadequate gear he will likely recommend and uses himself. I've been there,
don't waste your money and time learning things wrong. This guy has proven
himself an idiot already, do you really want to trust him with your life?
Try this guy, he is in NY, or check the GUE website for another
instructor in your area if you like:
Bob Sherwood
829 Main Street
Vestal, NY 13850
Phone: 607.786.3941
Fax 607.748.7565
email: sherwood@gu*.co*
--pina
-----Original Message-----
From: NyWrecker@ao*.co* [mailto:NyWrecker@ao*.co*]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:33 AM
To: pina3@be*.ne*
Subject: Re: deep air Please help
In a message dated 5/31/2001 11:56:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
pina3@be*.ne* writes:
35% helium at least on dives to 100' to 150' (this is nice at
85'-90' also),
45% helium at least on dives to 200', and 55% helium at least on
dives to
250' - no hyperoxic mixes and pp02Max of 1.4 - more like 1.3 or
1.2 for
this 35-45 helium whats it called hypoxix-normoxix-or just a mix
course.He
said something about it being 2 seperate courses
Ed
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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Trey</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I
am =
not going to=20
try and justify something I don't believe in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I =
just=20
don't think that you will get all of those scuba divers who =
regularly dive=20
to 100fsw on **non-deco dives** to switch to 35% Helium because of cost =
and gas=20
availability (particularly in Europe). It is probably more =
appropriate to=20
recommend Nitrox 32 - 36%</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS">Clearly, if=20
people are running serious bottom times at 100fsw the issue is different =
and a=20
good choice would be to use a trimix to ease deco but I honestly =
feel that=20
in the normal world of weenie dives it is overkill. =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Do GUE dive 35% =
He bottom=20
mix on standard dives in Manatee or Ginnie?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">As
a =
final=20
thought all of my deep trimix wreck dives use EAD of less than 100fsw on =
the=20
bottom with 50 / 100 deco mixes thanks to what I have learned from this=20
list.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D450231811-04062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trey=20
[mailto:trey@ne*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 04, 2001=20
11:23<BR><B>To:</B> Mark Dixon<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: deep air Please=20
help<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D4><SPAN =
class=3D050114409-04062001>No,=20
moron, you need to get real. We dive all helium based gases - the =
higher the=20
helium the better: less impairment, no micorcirculatory damage =
,easier=20
deco, cleaner more complete deco , easier to breathe, and the =
results=20
speak for themselves. Only a complete idiot would believe that there =
is any=20
reason to use air. My bet is you can not give me a reason that is not =
rife=20
with pure ignorance. Give it a try.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mark Dixon=20
[mailto:jj@da*.co*]Mark Dixon <BR><B>To:</B> =
pina<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: deep air Please=20
help<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D040485223-03062001><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans =
MS">35% He at 100=20
ft - I'm sorry but I don't believe this. I'm no advocate of =
deep air=20
but somebody needs to get real here!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D040485223-03062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D040485223-03062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D040485223-03062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D040485223-03062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> pina=20
[mailto:pina3@be*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 01, 2001 =
02:33<BR><B>To:</B> NyWrecker@ao*.co*; =
Techdiver<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
deep air Please help<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001>The 35%=20
would be 21-35 and the 45% would be 18-45 (with the first number =
being=20
the oxygen).<SPAN class=3D678202413-01062001> The =
important part is=20
that the EAD is maintained below 100 feet and the pp02max is =
below 1.4,=20
and that HYPERoxic mixes are not used in these=20
ranges.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001>18% is not=20
normoxic (21% is normoxic), but is accepted as such =
generally.<SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001> You shouldn't breathe it on =
the surface=20
as a matter of practice.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001>You need=20
to ditch this idiot instructor who was taking you to 150, 160, =
180 on=20
air (for what I assume must have been an Advanced Nitrox =
Course). =20
Do yourself a favor now and just take the rest of your training =
from GUE=20
<A =
href=3D"http://www.gue.com/">http://www.gue.com</A> The=20
link on the website that says "Classroom" talks about the =
courses. =20
There is a GUE instructor that I know in NY - his name is Bob=20
Sherwood. His contact information is below. =20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001>Continuing=20
with an instructor that is teaching you such dangerous practices =
as deep=20
air<SPAN class=3D678202413-01062001> will not do you =
any</SPAN>=20
good <SPAN =
class=3D678202413-01062001>in </SPAN>further=20
classes. The text alone is faulty and error laden, <SPAN=20
class=3D182092113-01062001>but when combined with a poor =
instructor=20
becomes a complete waste of time <SPAN =
class=3D678202413-01062001>and=20
money </SPAN>as well as a personal danger. Do not continue =
your=20
training with this idiot just to do him a favor or because you =
think he=20
is a nice guy, do yourself a favor and get proper=20
training.</SPAN> <SPAN class=3D678202413-01062001>=20
</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001><SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001><SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001>Otherwise, </SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001>y</SPAN>ou will just need to be =
retrained and=20
retold later how do do all the things safely that this idiot =
taught you=20
to do unsafely, so you might as well just get it taught to you =
properly=20
the first time. The current instructor would be teaching =
you=20
improper deco mixes most likely, too, like 80% or some other =
stupidity,=20
not to mention the dangerously inadequate gear he will likely =
recommend=20
and uses himself. I've been there, don't waste your money =
and time=20
learning things wrong. This guy has proven himself an =
idiot=20
already, do you really want to trust him with your=20
life?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001>Try this=20
guy, <SPAN class=3D678202413-01062001>he is in NY, =
</SPAN>or check=20
the GUE website for another instructor <SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001>in your area</SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D678202413-01062001> </SPAN>if you =
like:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN =
class=3D579594512-01062001><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D+2><B>Bob=20
Sherwood<BR></B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif"><B>829=20
Main Street<BR>Vestal, NY 13850<BR>Phone:
607.786.3941<BR>Fax=20
607.748.7565 <BR>email: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:sherwood@gu*.co*">sherwood@gue.com</A></B></FONT></SP
AN></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua"><SPAN=20
class=3D579594512-01062001>--pina</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
NyWrecker@ao*.co*=20
[mailto:NyWrecker@ao*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 01, =
2001 8:33=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> pina3@be*.ne*<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: =
deep air=20
Please help<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT =
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT=20
size=3D2>In a message dated 5/31/2001 11:56:25 PM Central =
Daylight Time,=20
<BR>pina3@be*.ne* writes: <BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">35% helium at least on dives to 100' to 150' =
(this is=20
nice at 85'-90' also), <BR>45% helium at least on dives to =
200', and=20
55% helium at least on dives to <BR>250' - no hyperoxic =
mixes and=20
pp02Max of 1.4 - more like 1.3 or 1.2 for=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><B>this 35-45 helium whats it
called=20
hypoxix-normoxix-or just a mix course.He <BR>said something =
about it=20
being 2 seperate courses=20
<BR> Ed</B></FONT>=20
=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO
TE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>
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