Mike, I concur 100 % on this design and concept, but only a drooling idiot
would shoot that or any bag to the surface from depth while himself attached
to it, and I would be glad to go over the permutations and combinations of
why this is so stupid, but that is a "mute" point since there is zero reason
to do so in the first place. I can't speak for the welding since I would not
even be stupid enough to even consider looking at a sealed lift bag that I
would have to disconnect my inflation to use and look at it. If I want to
participate in a clusterfuck, I will go play touch football with the
brothers at the high school.  Mike, I hope you guys don't fish, you'd be
buying every lure in the store and the fish would all be laughing at you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Citelli [mailto:joe@po*.co*]
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:37 PM
To: George Irvine; ASC; Gertje; Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
Subject: Re: Surface Markers


Agreed.  The sealed device is inappropriate for the particular need.

jc


----- Original Message -----
From: George Irvine <George-Irvine@em*.ne*>
To: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; ASC
<se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>;
Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Surface Markers


> Joe, come on, who would use a sealed device as a lift bag from depth?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Citelli" <joe@po*.co*>
> To: "ASC" <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; "Gertje"
> <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
>
>
> > >I'm unaware of problems when one deploys the bag properly.
> >
> > Well I am.
> >
> > I'm not advocating anything other than determining whether or not the
seam
> > problem has been corrected.  If you shoot the bag from any depth the
over
> > pressure valve should be able to dump enough air to prevent the seams
from
> > bursting.  Either the seams are bad or the valve is too small.  If you
can
> > only use it from 70' then it is only a limited use surface marker, not a
> > lift bag.  The original question was which product will serve as both a
> > marker and emergency lift.
> >
> > I personally never shoot the bag until the 70 to 50ft stop.   But if, as
> an
> > addendum to your courses, you dive, you realize that there are
> circumstances
> > where you want the boat to know your whereabouts asap which might
preclude
> > waiting until the 70' stop.
> >
> > Now I'm not interested in a philosophical debate over when to shoot the
> bag.
> > Plain and simple, if you can't shoot it from depth without it rupturing,
> it
> > does not fit the need.
> >
> > jc
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ASC <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> > To: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>;
> > <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> >
> >
> > > If one takes a GUE course, he or she would know that GUE advocates
> > deploying
> > > the lift bag once you arrive at 70', not at 275'.  I'm unaware of
> problems
> > > when one deploys the bag properly.
> > >
> > > ss
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>
> > > To: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>;
> > > <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:33 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> > >
> > >
> > > > The concept is great but I did not mention that one because there
have
> > > been
> > > > some problems with the seams opening up on them.  Before I purchased
> one
> > I
> > > > would check with Halcyon to see if this has been corrected.
> > > >
> > > > jc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>
> > > > To: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>;
> > > > <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:08 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Durin the GUE Tech1 we learned to use the Halcyon #80 lbs liftbag.
> It
> > > has
> > > > a
> > > > > no-dump construction, and has to be inflated with your
> inflator-hose.
> > A
> > > > real
> > > > > beauty if you ask me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gertjan
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>
> > > > > To: <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>; <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>;
> > > > > <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:17 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > For emergency lift you need a lift bag - not a marker.  The 100
> lb.
> > > > > Carters
> > > > > > (the old standby) seem to be the best and most reliable.  It
will
> > > double
> > > > > as
> > > > > > a surface marker but a poor one at best since it sits low in the
> > water
> > > > and
> > > > > > will often either be missed or will attract boaters who will
think
> > > they
> > > > > are
> > > > > > debris and try to pick them up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You need to have a proper marker - ie.: a float ball with a flag
> or
> > a
> > > > > > torpedo float - plus the lift bag.   The float ball will provide
> > > plenty
> > > > of
> > > > > > buoyancy but does you no good if you are not on it.  The torpedo
> > > floats
> > > > > will
> > > > > > not double as flotation.  My experience with the surface marker
> > (OMS)
> > > > you
> > > > > > refer to is negative.  Unless you have a dead weight pulling it
> down
> > > it
> > > > > lays
> > > > > > flat on the surface instead of erect.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>
> > > > > > To: <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:57 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Surface Markers
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I presently use a lift bag when doing drift deco, however, I
see
> > > most
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > are using surface markers here in South Florida and I'm about
to
> > > cross
> > > > > > over,
> > > > > > > but tired of buying shit and every dealer swears theirs is the
> > best.
> > > I
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > wondering if any particular brand or model was best suited for
a
> > > > surface
> > > > > > > marker and could double for emergency lift. Any info or
comments
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  1. OMS's surface marker, I think it's 55# of lift and has the
> O.
> > P
> > > > vent
> > > > > > > (pull type) and one way flapper near bottom.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The new (new to me) Carter 35# surface marker that has an
> oral
> > > > > inflate
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > O.P vent in same tube located near the bottom.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Too all who reply thanks for your time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BOB
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>

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