JT and Rick had a problem with the halcyon closed lift bag. The issue was
not burst seams but rather a defective dump valve. When the air in the bag
expanded to the point of popping the valve, the valve would not re-seat
properly once the the pressure had equalized and down comes the bag. They
popped the seat back into place and sent it back up but the same thing
happened again.

I understand that some of these same dump valves were used by a certain BC
manufacturer and they had to recall the BCs for the same problem.

This would have happened at 70ft or 270ft, the physics are exactly the same.
Also you cannot compare drift diving with a SMB and stationary emergency up
line with an SMB. With stationary you pop the bag on the bottom and loop the
line to you come up, and this would more than likely be at deeper than 70'
so this argument of popping the bag too deep is not relevant.

In the dive industry there are 2 or 3 big players for OEM parts such as
this, and if Halcyon had a problem with this so did others. So it would
probably be a good idea to check the function of your dump valve on your BC
regardless of it's make.

This problem would not have happened with an open bottom lift bag, the dumps
are usually on top and used to adjust the buoyancy of the bag. But on the
other hand open bottomed bags can dump in rough water.

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: "Joe Citelli" <joe@po*.co*>
> Reply-To: "Joe Citelli" <joe@po*.co*>
> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:48:53 -0300
> To: "ASC" <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>, "Gertje" <gert.je@wo*.nl*>,
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> 
>> I'm unaware of problems when one deploys the bag properly.
> 
> Well I am.
> 
> I'm not advocating anything other than determining whether or not the seam
> problem has been corrected.  If you shoot the bag from any depth the over
> pressure valve should be able to dump enough air to prevent the seams from
> bursting.  Either the seams are bad or the valve is too small.  If you can
> only use it from 70' then it is only a limited use surface marker, not a
> lift bag.  The original question was which product will serve as both a
> marker and emergency lift.
> 
> I personally never shoot the bag until the 70 to 50ft stop.   But if, as an
> addendum to your courses, you dive, you realize that there are circumstances
> where you want the boat to know your whereabouts asap which might preclude
> waiting until the 70' stop.
> 
> Now I'm not interested in a philosophical debate over when to shoot the bag.
> Plain and simple, if you can't shoot it from depth without it rupturing, it
> does not fit the need.
> 
> jc
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ASC <se2schul@st*.ma*.uw*.ca*>
> To: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>;
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
> 
> 
>> If one takes a GUE course, he or she would know that GUE advocates
> deploying
>> the lift bag once you arrive at 70', not at 275'.  I'm unaware of problems
>> when one deploys the bag properly.
>> 
>> ss
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>
>> To: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>; <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>;
>> <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
>> 
>> 
>>> The concept is great but I did not mention that one because there have
>> been
>>> some problems with the seams opening up on them.  Before I purchased one
> I
>>> would check with Halcyon to see if this has been corrected.
>>> 
>>> jc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Gertje <gert.je@wo*.nl*>
>>> To: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>;
>>> <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Durin the GUE Tech1 we learned to use the Halcyon #80 lbs liftbag. It
>> has
>>> a
>>>> no-dump construction, and has to be inflated with your inflator-hose.
> A
>>> real
>>>> beauty if you ask me.
>>>> 
>>>> Gertjan
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*>
>>>> To: <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>; <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>;
>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 12:17 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Surface Markers
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> For emergency lift you need a lift bag - not a marker.  The 100 lb.
>>>> Carters
>>>>> (the old standby) seem to be the best and most reliable.  It will
>> double
>>>> as
>>>>> a surface marker but a poor one at best since it sits low in the
> water
>>> and
>>>>> will often either be missed or will attract boaters who will think
>> they
>>>> are
>>>>> debris and try to pick them up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You need to have a proper marker - ie.: a float ball with a flag or
> a
>>>>> torpedo float - plus the lift bag.   The float ball will provide
>> plenty
>>> of
>>>>> buoyancy but does you no good if you are not on it.  The torpedo
>> floats
>>>> will
>>>>> not double as flotation.  My experience with the surface marker
> (OMS)
>>> you
>>>>> refer to is negative.  Unless you have a dead weight pulling it down
>> it
>>>> lays
>>>>> flat on the surface instead of erect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: <RLucas1013@ao*.co*>
>>>>> To: <FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:57 AM
>>>>> Subject: Surface Markers
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I presently use a lift bag when doing drift deco, however, I see
>> most
>>>>> people
>>>>>> are using surface markers here in South Florida and I'm about to
>> cross
>>>>> over,
>>>>>> but tired of buying shit and every dealer swears theirs is the
> best.
>> I
>>>> was
>>>>>> wondering if any particular brand or model was best suited for a
>>> surface
>>>>>> marker and could double for emergency lift. Any info or comments
>> would
>>>> be
>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. OMS's surface marker, I think it's 55# of lift and has the O.
> P
>>> vent
>>>>>> (pull type) and one way flapper near bottom.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2. The new (new to me) Carter 35# surface marker that has an oral
>>>> inflate
>>>>> and
>>>>>> O.P vent in same tube located near the bottom.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Too all who reply thanks for your time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> BOB
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>> 
> 
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> 


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