"learning deco so that one does not need a computer or tables,"

I didn't just pull this one out of my hat, this is advocated by a respected
diver. This is the way I want to conduct my helium deco dives. Bottom timer,
depth gauge and the knowledge. My diving is easy to manage 10-40 minutes
bottom time and not very deep. If I keep my EAD to less than 100' and O2
less than 1.4 then managing the helium slow ascents and extra stops is the
next step. I don't want to learn the lazy way with a laptop and deco
software to cut tables. I want to know the math behind the theory. I will
check into those books you mention. Thanks for the advise.

Steve

on 5/31/01 8:57 AM, Jim Cobb at Cobber@ci*.co* wrote:

> Steve-
> 
> Thanks for the complements o

> n the website, I appreciate it. You need to read
> it a  bit more carefully, however, as the answers to your questions are
> contained within the web site.
> 
> I am also concerned at your self-imposed 150' air limit, I think that an EAD
> of 100 is a bit more appropriate. From the general tone of your post I think
> that perhaps you may need a few more dives under your belt and perhaps some
> training and/or tutelage on the practice of Deco diving.
> 
> You don't really "learn" helium, all He does is make your dive safer. What you
> really need to be very good at before you do serious Deco diving is gas
> management, Deco bottle preparation and utilization. You really need to be
> perfectly comfortable under water in all conditions and not have any
> tendencies to stress out when problem arise, and indeed problems *will* arise
> sooner or later.
> 
> You also need to make sure your gear is squared away, no stupid bullshit like
> OMS stuporwings, steel stages, suicide clips, convoluted hose routing etc. Use
> DIR guidelines (www.gue.com) and don't listen to the "old school" techdivers,
> there are currently better ways to do things which are make techdiving more
> survivable, particularly to the newbie.
> 
> Then dive your gear. Dive rec profiles with full doubles and stages and
> practice, practice, practice. Helium is your friend, Oxygen is the thing to
> worry about, it's the O2 that will kill you.
> 
> On the tables, it is insane to think that you can do gradient calculations in
> your head, as one rocket scientist claimed he could do. After you do a whole
> bunch of dives using a tables calculation program you begin to see trends on
> how your particular Deco profile shapes up.

> Deco is not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. A Deco program
> takes mathematical theories, various fudge factors and applies them to all
> physiological types in all underwater situations. Wish things were that
> simple.
> 
> Every individual is damaging his or her body to a certain extent when Deco
> diving. You try to manage the damage, and the body repairs itself quite well
> in most cases. As it is your body only you can tell when your profile is not
> quite right and you need adjust appropriately. And you gain this knowledge
> through experience and research. It is your ass.
> 
> So go back to the drawing board, Steve, and read my website, the books I
> mention, Techdiver archives and anything else you can get your hands on
> concerning Deco theory and practice, practice, practice.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:40 AM, Steve <sfkenney@ea*.ne*> wrote:
>> I take it you are the webmaster on the trimix site? Very good work BTW, it's
>> a home mixers dream come true. I would like to try some helium diving this
>> year. I'm somewhat concerned about the side effects, stiff joints flu like
>> symptoms, problems from rapid ascents. Why do you need to make slow descents
>> when using helium? With all the talk about the danger of deep air, I've set
>> my limit at 150'. I want to learn to dive helium without computers and
>> without cutting tables, just have the knowledge to calculate on the fly as I
>> go.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 5/28/01 5:25 PM, Jim Cobb at Cobber@ci*.co* wrote:
>> 
>>> Once you cut your tables you need to carry them down somehow. Some like to
>>> tape them to flat plastic slates. Others combine a bottom timer to a
>>> conformal
>>> plastic slate. Mike Zurl contributed a nice page on how to make one where
>>> you
>>> don't need to use duct tape to write your numbers on.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:42 PM, Steve <sfkenney@ea*.ne*> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Jim, what do you mean about your new wrist slate section? I'm not positive
>>>> I
>>>> want to get way into tech diving because I'm 48 years old but I do want to
>>>> learn about it. Decompression theory is interesting and it's affects on the
>>>> body is relevent to me even if I don't go real deep. I may decide down the
>>>> road to volunteer for a recompression chamber.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 1) Tables
>>>> 2) No tables and no computer
>>>> 3) Math equations??
>>>> 4) Tabletop software programs
>>>> 5) Wrist Computers
>>>> by order of preference
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> on 5/27/01 10:35 AM, Jim Cobb at cobber@ci*.co* wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Get yourself a cheap laptop, Decoplanner from www.gue.com, see my new
>>>>> wrist
>>>>> slate section, purchase a uwatec bottom timer. Then take the $1000 you
>>>>> save
>>>>> and get yourself a proper set of wings, doubles and regs. If tech diving
>>>>> is
>>>>> what you want to get into, then you are all set. If you simply have to get
>>>>> a
>>>>> computer for non-trimix deco dives then go for the DiveRite or Suunto
>>>>> Viper
>>>>> which has a gauge mode you can use for when you do the deep stuff.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Steve <sfkenney@ea*.ne*>
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:43:57 -0700
>>>>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Z <mzurl@be*.ne*>,
>>>>>> Fltechdiver
>>>>>> <fltechdiver@mikey.net>, Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: TriMix Computer Vote RESULTS
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I didn't see the post where I could vote on computers. I don't think I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> buy one for $1900 unless I was a professional diver and they were proven
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work well. Are there two brands on the market now, Dive-Rite and Abyss? I
>>>>>> believe they monitor three gases and you can switch gas on the fly,
>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>> impressive. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What are the options for a beginner tech diver?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1) Tables
>>>>>> 2) Tabletop software programs
>>>>>> 3) Wrist Computers
>>>>>> 4) No tables and no computer
>>>>>> 5) Math equations??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve Kenney
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on 5/25/01 3:54 PM, Jim Cobb at cobber@ci*.co* wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, this vote shows that there are 21 IANTD instroketors on Mikey's
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> here and 4 normal people. This might explain why you boys seem to have
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> a hard time filling tech trips down there, not enough trimix
>>>>>>> computers...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyway, moving right along...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: "Z" <mzurl@be*.ne*>
>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:23:09 -0400
>>>>>>>> To: "Fltechdiver" <fltechdiver@mikey.net>
>>>>>>>> Subject: TriMix Computer Vote RESULTS
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ALL -
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At this time, it appears anyone who was going to vote did so.  As a
>>>>>>>> result,
>>>>>>>> I have decided to release the results of the first DeeperStuff
>>>>>>>> Technical
>>>>>>>> Dive Debate.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Question:
>>>>>>>> Would you use a wrist-mounted TriMix computer?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> RESULTS:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> NO     4
>>>>>>>> YES    21
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> YES BY A LANDSLIDE !!!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Z's Analysis:
>>>>>>>> To some, it might appear that voter turnout was low. I believe this was
>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>> to a small population of trimix rated divers to begin with.  Since
>>>>>>>> FLTechDiver is monitored by hundreds' I suspect many were afraid to
>>>>>>>> vote
>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>> to their lack of experience in this area.  Although I will not divulge
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> names of those who voted, many are well respected "mix" divers, and at
>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>> a couple  admitted currently owning a "mix" computer.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I will admit the landslide surprised me.  I figured we were in for a
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> closer tally.  This also confirms what I have always believed, that
>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>> monitor these lists without voicing their opinion which is in direct
>>>>>>>> contradiction to a few VERY vocal participants.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Someone asked me how I was going to vote.  For the record, I said "YES"
>>>>>>>> (if
>>>>>>>> I could find a mix computer I liked that is)!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Z
>>>>>>>> www.deeperstuff.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>>>>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
>>>>>>>> listserv@mi*.ne*
>>>>>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
>>>>>>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'....
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>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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