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 "AUPISTP, Association of Underwater Pillagers and Inflatable Sex Toy Perverts"
-  Now there's a name I'll pay to see on a t-shirt...
  Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*> wrote: Oh! So you've met the Mascot?

jc


----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cobb 
To: Michael Barnette ;
; ;

Cc: ; 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: AUE artifact recovery


> Seth don't believe a word these guys say. I have seen them myself, Mike R
> wears an eye patch and Mike B carries a cutlass and has a peg-leg. I
myself
> have seen them make a Capt. of a dive boat walk the plank because he
refused
> to scrape barnacles off their ill-gotten gains. I know for a fact that
they
> have a black van with a skull and crossbones that you will see parked at
> local 7-11's after a dive selling their purloined brass artifacts to
> tourists along with AUE "loot 'em all and let God sort em out" T-shirts.
Not
> only that the shirts say XXL but are really mediums. And any brass stuff
> they can't sell they melt down into keychain dive helmets. Frankly I'm
> appalled at these guys. They should be called AUPISTP, Association of
> Underwater Pillagers and Inflatable Sex Toy Perverts.
>
> Jim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
> > From: "Michael Barnette" 
> > Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:27:09
> > To: SethJohnstone@co*.co*, mikey@mi*.ne*,
techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > Cc: FLTechDiver@mikey.net, vbtech@ci*.co*
> > Subject: AUE artifact recovery
> >
> > Hi Seth-
> >
> >> However, I was looking at the AUE website, and noticed that part of
your
> >> "slogan" reads that your group is "dedicated to the research,
exploration,
> >> documentation, and preservation of submerged cultural resources." If
you
> >> want to bill your organization as a group of individuals dedicated to
the
> >> "preservation of submerged cultural resources", you need to expand the
> >> scope of your exploration dives in order to preserve the information
> >> potential available on wrecks that were not intentionally sunk in order
to
> >> make an artificial reef (e.g. the Duane).
> >
> > Response:
> > The AUE website used to focus primarily on "natural" wrecks and excluded
> > artificial reefs. However, down here in Florida many of the deeper
sites
> > are artificial and there was a demand for that information.
> >
> > In regard to expanding the scope of our exploration dives, we attempt to
> > gather as much information and data as possible, given the limited
amount of
> > time we have on these deep wrecks. If you saw my artifact collection I
> > could tell you exactly from what wreck they were recovered from and
where on
> > the wreck they were found. I have drafted numerous maps of various
> > wrecksites. Additionally, I have basic data slips for the artifacts in
my
> > files that list what particular wreck, date, depth, location, and other
> > notations. This protocol is similar to basic/rudimentary scientific
> > collection procedures. Also, images of the artifacts prior to
conservation
> > are generally available. For projects that we volunteer for and that
are
> > funded and coordinated by a project archaeologist (such as the USS
Monitor
> > Expedition) we generally take 2-3 point measurements of the artifact in
situ
> > to capture its location within the site, capture video and still images
of
> > the artifact in situ, sketch the artifact in situ, and then finally
recover
> > the artifact after consulting with the project archaeologist. While the
> > intergrity of the data is more robust, it presents a heavy work burden
to
> > recover any particular artifact. In contrast, AUE is self-funded. We
do
> > not have the luxury of financial backing to allow us adequate time to
> > thoroughly document a site. We do the best we can with available
resources.
> > We then present this information -- free of charge -- to all those that
> > wish to view it on the AUE website. Unfortunately, I do not have the
time
> > nor energy to add every item of worth to the website. I do my best to
> > present some basic information that would be of value to other divers.
> > These files are constantly updated. I challenge anyone to present a
more
> > extensive shipwreck resource online and free of charge.
> >
> > [SNIP]
> >
> >> To say a group is dedicated to the "preservation of submerged cultural
> >> resources" is a tall order to fill.
> >
> > Response:
> > It sounded good at the time .
> > Many feel that recovery of artifacts contradicts this statement.
However,
> > preservation does not necessarily mean "don't touch." Many more
individuals
> > have learned more of this particular wreck, let alone the hundreds that
we
> > have data on that can be found on the AUE website, by reading our dive
> > reports and seeing images of recovered artifacts than if we simply dove
the
> > wrecks and did nothing. Furthermore, when we make presentations to
> > diveclubs and the like, just about everyone likes the experience of
> > "touching history" and seeing the artifacts up close. As stated before,
> > these wrecks are very remote and, frankly, there are not people lining
up to
> > do these dives.
> >
> > Again, we do the best that we can. I don't feel that I need to
constantly
> > validate myself or my team from critics. Our actions are not illegal.
We
> > only wish to pass on our knowledge and benefit others in this sport that
we
> > all thoroughly enjoy.
> >
> > [SNIP]
> >
> >> What needs to be added to this is maps of where these artifacts you're
> >> finding are coming from, information on what other types of artifacts
are
> >> being found in association with those you are actually able to bring
up,
> >> and how the artifacts are arranged.
> >
> > Reponse:
> > See above. I am particularly fascinated by the "pathology" of shipwreck
> > deterioration; I like to document how a vessel transforms into its
current
> > state over its many years of immersion.
> >
> > [SNIP]
> >
> > The documents rarely live up to what is actually found at a site,
shipwreck
> > or otherwise, and I would imagine there are very few documents
specifically
> > focusing on the day-to-day lives of those who lived aboard ships such as
the
> > Rhein during this period of time.
> >
> > Response:
> > The archives on this particular vessel are generally very good. The
parent
> > shipping company has complete documentation of the M/V Rhein. [NOTE:
the
> > ship is the "M/V Rhein" and not "Rhein Hamburg"; this error orginated
from a
> > book published a few years ago]. The sinking was covered in the NY
Times
> > and in US Navy correspondence. No personal artifacts have been found to
> > date, most likely due to the violent fire that broke out just before its
> > sinking. In fact, I just saw a picture of the bell after initial
cleaning
> > and even the lip of the bell is distorted which we speculate may be due
to
> > the intense heat of the fire.
> >
> > I understand and recognize your message though. Other vessels are less
> > documented and each artifact tells a story. Again, we do the best we
can.
> > To get corny: if not us, who? In not now, when? These sites have a
finite
> > lifespan. For example, we have video from the initial dives on the
Araby
> > Maid in the late 80s. When compared to our video shot last year you can
see
> > a great deal of change and deterioration. Furthermore, we could even
see a
> > drastic change in the stern around the steering station just from last
year
> > as upper portions are succumbing to gravity and dropping off into the
sand.
> >
> > It is important to note that just because we recover artifacts off these
> > wrecks does not mean that we would recover artifacts off any wreck.
This
> > issue is not black and white. Different environments allow for
different
> > management strategies. AUE fully supports the prohibition of artifact
> > collection in the Great Lakes and similar areas due to the relatively
stable
> > environment. Other regions such as the Baltic Sea and the fjords of
Norway
> > also offer extended stability of shipwreck sites. However, the exposed
> > tropical ocean waters in Florida and along the US east coast where we
play
> > are a very different beast.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michael C. Barnette
> > Association of Underwater Explorers
> > Because it's there...somewhere...maybe.
> > http://www.mikey.net/aue
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
>
>
> ============================================================
> To contact the list administrator, email
> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
> listserv@mi*.ne*
> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
> unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>




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<P> "AUPISTP, Association of Underwater Pillagers and Inflatable Sex
Toy Perverts" -  Now there's a name I'll pay to see on a t-shirt...
<P>  <B><I>Joe Citelli <joe@po*.co*></I></B> wrote: 
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff
2px solid">Oh! So you've met the
Mascot?<BR><BR>jc<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message
-----<BR>From: Jim Cobb <COBBER@CI*.CO*><BR>To: Michael Barnette
<AOCFISHMAN@HO*.CO*>;<BR><SETHJOHNSTONE@COMPUWATERARCH.COM>;
<MIKEY@MI*.NE*>;<BR><TECHDIVER@AQUANAUT.COM><BR>Cc:
<FLTECHDIVER@MIKEY.NET>; <VBTECH@CI*.CO*><BR>Sent: Wednesday, May 30,
2001 9:35 PM<BR>Subject: Re: AUE artifact recovery<BR><BR><BR>>
Seth don't believe a word these guys say. I have seen them myself, Mike
R<BR>> wears an eye patch and Mike B carries a cutlass and has a peg-leg.
I<BR>myself<BR>> have seen them make a Capt. of a dive boat walk the
plank because he<BR>refused<BR>> to scrape barnacles off their
ill-gotten gains. I know for a fact that<BR>they<BR>> have a black van
with a skull and crossbones that you will see parked at<BR>> local 7-11's
after a dive selling their purloined brass artifacts to<BR>> tourists
along with AUE "loot 'em all and let God sort em out"
T-shirts.<BR>Not<BR>> only that the shirts say XXL but are really
mediums. And any brass stuff<BR>> they can't sell they melt down into
keychain dive helmets. Frankly I'm<BR>> appalled at these guys. They
should be called AUPISTP, Association of<BR>> Underwater Pillagers and
Inflatable Sex Toy Perverts.<BR>><BR>> Jim<BR>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/<BR>><BR>>
> From: "Michael Barnette" <AOCFISHMAN@HO*.CO*><BR>> > Date:
Wed, 30 May 2001 18:27:09<BR>> > To: SethJohnstone@co*.co*,
mikey@mi*.ne*,<BR>techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR>> > Cc:
FLTechDiver@mi*.ne*, vbtech@ci*.co*<BR>> > Subject: AUE artifact
recovery<BR>> ><BR>> > Hi Seth-<BR>> ><BR>>
>> However, I was looking at the AUE website, and noticed that part
of<BR>your<BR>> >> "slogan" reads that your group is "dedicated
to the research,<BR>exploration,<BR>> >> documentation, and
preservation of submerged cultural resources." If<BR>you<BR>> >>
want to bill your organization as a group of individuals dedicated
to<BR>the<BR>> >> "preservation of submerged cultural
resources", you need to expand the<BR>> >> scope of your
exploration dives in order to preserve the information<BR>> >>
potential available on wrecks that were not intentionally sunk in
order<BR>to<BR>> >> make an artificial reef (e.g. the
Duane).<BR>> ><BR>> > Response:<BR>> > The AUE
website used to focus primarily on "natural" wrecks and excluded<BR>>
> artificial reefs. However, down here in Florida many of the
deeper<BR>sites<BR>> > are artificial and there was a demand for
that information.<BR>> ><BR>> > In regard to expanding the
scope of our exploration dives, we attempt to<BR>> > gather as much
information and data as possible, given the limited<BR>amount of<BR>>
> time we have on these deep wrecks. If you saw my artifact collection
I<BR>> > could tell you exactly from what wreck they were recovered
from and<BR>where on<BR>> > the wreck they were found. I have
drafted numerous maps of various<BR>> > wrecksites. Additionally, I
have basic data slips for the artifacts in<BR>my<BR>> > files that
list what particular wreck, date, depth, location, and other<BR>> >
notations. This protocol is similar to basic/rudimentary scientific<BR>>
> collection procedures. Also, images of the artifacts prior
to<BR>conservation<BR>> > are generally available. For projects
that we volunteer for and that<BR>are<BR>> > funded and coordinated
by a project archaeologist (such as the USS<BR>Monitor<BR>> >
Expedition) we generally take 2-3 point measurements of the artifact
in<BR>situ<BR>> > to capture its location within the site, capture
video and still images<BR>of<BR>> > the artifact in situ, sketch
the artifact in situ, and then finally<BR>recover<BR>> > the
artifact after consulting with the project archaeologist. While the<BR>>
> intergrity of the data is more robust, it presents a heavy work
burden<BR>to<BR>> > recover any particular artifact. In contrast,
AUE is self-funded. We<BR>do<BR>> > not have the luxury of
financial backing to allow us adequate time to<BR>> > thoroughly
document a site. We do the best we can with
available<BR>resources.<BR>> > We then present this information --
free of charge -- to all those that<BR>> > wish to view it on the AUE
website. Unfortunately, I do not have the<BR>time<BR>> > nor energy
to add every item of worth to the website. I do my best to<BR>> >
present some basic information that would be of value to other
divers.<BR>> > These files are constantly updated. I challenge anyone
to present a<BR>more<BR>> > extensive shipwreck resource online and
free of charge.<BR>> ><BR>> > [SNIP]<BR>>
><BR>> >> To say a group is dedicated to the "preservation of
submerged cultural<BR>> >> resources" is a tall order to
fill.<BR>> ><BR>> > Response:<BR>> > It sounded good
at the time <G>.<BR>> > Many feel that recovery of artifacts
contradicts this statement.<BR>However,<BR>> > preservation does
not necessarily mean "don't touch." Many more<BR>individuals<BR>> >
have learned more of this particular wreck, let alone the hundreds
that<BR>we<BR>> > have data on that can be found on the AUE
website, by reading our dive<BR>> > reports and seeing images of
recovered artifacts than if we simply dove<BR>the<BR>> > wrecks and
did nothing. Furthermore, when we make presentations to<BR>> >
diveclubs and the like, just about everyone likes the experience of<BR>>
> "touching history" and seeing the artifacts up close. As stated
before,<BR>> > these wrecks are very remote and, frankly, there are
not people lining<BR>up to<BR>> > do these dives.<BR>>
><BR>> > Again, we do the best that we can. I don't feel that I
need to<BR>constantly<BR>> > validate myself or my team from
critics. Our actions are not illegal.<BR>We<BR>> > only wish to
pass on our knowledge and benefit others in this sport that<BR>we<BR>>
> all thoroughly enjoy.<BR>> ><BR>> > [SNIP]<BR>>
><BR>> >> What needs to be added to this is maps of where these
artifacts you're<BR>> >> finding are coming from, information on
what other types of artifacts<BR>are<BR>> >> being found in
association with those you are actually able to bring<BR>up,<BR>>
>> and how the artifacts are arranged.<BR>> ><BR>> >
Reponse:<BR>> > See above. I am particularly fascinated by the
"pathology" of shipwreck<BR>> > deterioration; I like to document how
a vessel transforms into its<BR>current<BR>> > state over its many
years of immersion.<BR>> ><BR>> > [SNIP]<BR>>
><BR>> > The documents rarely live up to what is actually found at
a site,<BR>shipwreck<BR>> > or otherwise, and I would imagine there
are very few documents<BR>specifically<BR>> > focusing on the
day-to-day lives of those who lived aboard ships such as<BR>the<BR>>
> Rhein during this period of time.<BR>> ><BR>> >
Response:<BR>> > The archives on this particular vessel are generally
very good. The<BR>parent<BR>> > shipping company has complete
documentation of the M/V Rhein. [NOTE:<BR>the<BR>> > ship is the
"M/V Rhein" and not "Rhein Hamburg"; this error orginated<BR>from
a<BR>> > book published a few years ago]. The sinking was covered in
the NY<BR>Times<BR>> > and in US Navy correspondence. No personal
artifacts have been found to<BR>> > date, most likely due to the
violent fire that broke out just before its<BR>> > sinking. In fact, I
just saw a picture of the bell after initial<BR>cleaning<BR>> > and
even the lip of the bell is distorted which we speculate may be
due<BR>to<BR>> > the intense heat of the fire.<BR>>
><BR>> > I understand and recognize your message though. Other
vessels are less<BR>> > documented and each artifact tells a story.
Again, we do the best we<BR>can.<BR>> > To get corny: if not us,
who? In not now, when? These sites have a<BR>finite<BR>> >
lifespan. For example, we have video from the initial dives on
the<BR>Araby<BR>> > Maid in the late 80s. When compared to our
video shot last year you can<BR>see<BR>> > a great deal of change
and deterioration. Furthermore, we could even<BR>see a<BR>> >
drastic change in the stern around the steering station just from
last<BR>year<BR>> > as upper portions are succumbing to gravity and
dropping off into the<BR>sand.<BR>> ><BR>> > It is
important to note that just because we recover artifacts off these<BR>>
> wrecks does not mean that we would recover artifacts off any
wreck.<BR>This<BR>> > issue is not black and white. Different
environments allow for<BR>different<BR>> > management strategies.
AUE fully supports the prohibition of artifact<BR>> > collection in
the Great Lakes and similar areas due to the relatively<BR>stable<BR>>
> environment. Other regions such as the Baltic Sea and the fjords
of<BR>Norway<BR>> > also offer extended stability of shipwreck
sites. However, the exposed<BR>> > tropical ocean waters in Florida
and along the US east coast where we<BR>play<BR>> > are a very
different beast.<BR>> ><BR>> > Cheers,<BR>> >
Michael C. Barnette<BR>> > Association of Underwater
Explorers<BR>> > Because it's there...somewhere...maybe.<BR>>
> http://www.mikey.net/aue<BR>> ><BR>> >
_________________________________________________________________<BR>>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com<BR>> ><BR>> > --<BR>> > Send
mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<BR>>
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<BR>>
><BR>><BR>><BR>>
============================================================<BR>> To
contact the list administrator, email<BR>> Mike Rodriguez at
mikey@mi*.ne*<BR>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message
to:<BR>> listserv@mikey.net<BR>> and in the *BODY* of the message
type:<BR>> unsubscribe
FLTechDiver<BR>><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr
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