As for feeling better after the dives it has more to do with proper profile=
 gas etc. then blowing off 5 mins of a 40 min deco. If you=92re doing all t=
his with in the Buehlmann ceiling you=92re going to be reasonably safe in m=
y opinion. I don=92t believe you can tweak the consumer version of these pr=
ograms to go beyond the actual Buehlmann M-value.=20


-----Original Message-----
From: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>
To: "Tom Mount"<TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, "David Shimell"<David.Shimell@=
talk21.com>, "Ray Blanchard"<rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech
Diver"<techdiver@aquanaut=
..com>
Cc: "Alan Crew"<alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, "Dell Motes"<de=
ll@di*.co*>
Date: Fri May 25 11:55:53 PDT 2001
Subject: Re: Trimix Computers

>Tom, look if you are asking if I sit on the hang line and say "hey, wonder=
 I
>I'd get bent if I surface now". Or "hey, I didn't get bent on that last
>dive, think I'll crank the gradient all the way to the other side and see =
if
>I get bent then".
>
>No, that's not what I do. You are being a bit churlish here, aren't you? Y=
ou
>start with the default of the tables program you are using and see how you
>feel. Feeling a bit tired after the dive? Not quite right? Then modify the
>gradient, start the stops a little deeper, stay on the 02 a little longer.
>
>You do the dive and feel fine? Great. Crank back on the gradient a little
>and see what the effect is on your deco time and do the dive. Then see how
>you feel. For most people you will be doing this continuously during your
>diving career.
>
>I simply cannot believe I am discussing truly basic stuff like this with T=
om
>Mount, I really cannot.
>
>I guess from your school, Tom, you go get your Alladin Pro or your Navy
>tables, jump in the water, slavishly adhere to it's ridiculous deco
>schedule, get out of the water, feel like shit and then declare it a
>successful dive. Then do it again. What do you call this technique?
>
>   Jim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:17:24 -0400
>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver"
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Dell Mot=
es"
>> <dell@di*.co*>
>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>=20
>> To Jim Cobb
>> Jim, You stated: " Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-d=
ive
>> calculations.It up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your ow=
n
>> body finding
>> out what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications=
 of
>> your limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
>> lungs,etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
>> imagine not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. "
>>=20
>>=20
>> So I guess then based on your statement , that there must be two types o=
r
>> definitions of DIR
>>=20
>> 1. Doing It Right ( the one most people are familiar with)
>>=20
>> 2. or as someone else has stated instead Doing It Ridiculsly
>>=20
>> Sounds like you follow the second one
>>=20
>> So which DIR do you really support
>>=20
>>=20
>> Now to answer your last email
>>=20
>> First: Do you guys ever read. I did not mention anything about my dives
>>=20
>> Second: I will tell you I do not go out and bend myself on purpose just =
to
>> see what my threshold is on a given day, like you advocate
>>=20
>> Third: You stated you deliberately bend yourself then back off. Now that
>> cannot be considered a logical or intelligent action.
>>=20
>> Fourth: I would imagine many if not most divers who do a lot of deco div=
es
>> have had niggles
>>=20
>> Fifth: I hope most of these people do not deliberately bend themselves
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>> To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "David Shimell"
>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tech Diver"
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>=20
>>=20
>>> So what you're telling me, Tom, that in all of your 10,000 dives you've
>>> never had any indications of sub-clinical DCS at all? Every single one =
of
>>> your decompression dives you've done, especially those deep air special=
s,
>>> have been perfect dives? What a load of crap.
>>>=20
>>> Z, here's more survey material for you. A show of hands of people who
>>> actually do staged deco dives who have never had niggle one, a perfect
>> dive
>>> every time.
>>>=20
>>> George you weren't kidding, were you?
>>>=20
>>> Jim
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>=20
>>>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:49:33 -0400
>>>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
>>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Dive=
r"
>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>=20
>>>> So you deliberately go to the point of getting mild DCS and then back
>> off .
>>>> That is really intelligent Cobb
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>>>> To: "David Shimell" <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard"
>>>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "Tech Diver"
>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:22 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-dive calculations=
..
>> It
>>>>> up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your own body findin=
g
>> out
>>>>> what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications =
of
>>>> your
>>>>> limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
>> lungs,
>>>>> etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
>> imagine
>>>>> not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. I dare say that if
>> you
>>>> do
>>>>> it enough you know what your deco is intuitively in certain standard
>>>>> profiles. Why anybody would want to cripple themselves with a wrist
>> deco
>>>>> computer is beyond me.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> From: David Shimell <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:50:49 +0100
>>>>>> To: "'Jim Cobb'" <cobber@ci*.co*>, Ray Blanchard
>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>,
>>>> Tom
>>>>>> Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Tech Diver
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>,
>>>>>> "FLTechDiver@mikey.net"<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> It is as simple as the desire to have things easy, with little or no
>>>>>> intellectual effort expended.  Nothing actually wrong with that if t=
he
>>>> product
>>>>>> delivers to goods and the individual is prepared to pay the price.
>> The
>>>>>> problem occurs when the product does not deliver the goods - keeps t=
he
>>>>>> individual in-water longer than necessary or fails.  Suddenly, what
>>>> would be
>>>>>> routine dive to BT users may become a stressful CF, or in the most
>>>> extreme of
>>>>>> circumstances kill the individual.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> David Shimell
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@ci*.co*]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:28 AM
>>>>>> To: Ray Blanchard; Tom Mount; Tech Diver
>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew; FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> << File: ATT00048.htm >> All I can say is Ray, Why? All the stuff
yo=
u
>>>> relate
>>>>>> here with the added
>>>>>> bonus of the "most complicated interface in dive computerdom". Excus=
e
>> me
>>>> but
>>>>>> I do believe that there are more important things to be keeping trac=
k
>> of
>>>> on
>>>>>> a trimix dive than trying to figure out the most complicated interfa=
ce
>>>> ever
>>>>>> strapped on a wrist.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> What advantage does this $1900 monstrosity offer over a bottom timer=
,
>>>> tables
>>>>>> and a solid understanding of deco that only comes from experience?
>> This
>>>> is
>>>>>> pure geek stuff, hoypaloy which adds nothing to your dive but more
>>>>>> complexity, task loading and failure points.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> From: Ray Blanchard <rkbl@uf*.ed*>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:36:09 -0400
>>>>>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Alan, Tom & the rest of the list,
>>>>>> Thanks for the informative posts from folks regarding trimix compute=
rs
>>>> in
>>>>>> particular the Abyss Explorer and the Phoenix VR3 as well as the
>> limited
>>>>>> application of the NiTek3.  While not a trimix computer diver, I've
>> been
>>>>>> following this area closely for several years and dreaming of owning
>>>> one.
>>>>>> This past DEMA show, however, was especially interesting in regards =
to
>>>> the
>>>>>> VR3 which is the only trimix computer that I've seen in private
>>>> individuals'
>>>>>> hands (see Z's post regarding the Explorer).  Prior to the show my
>>>>>> information was limited to that from OMS, the U.S. distributor of th=
e
>>>> VR3,
>>>>>> and a friend who dove one and found the user interface rather comple=
x.
>>>>>> While visiting the OMS booth at DEMA, I spoke at length to Kevin Gur=
r
>>>> and
>>>>>> another member of the VR3 development team and discovered that OMS's
>>>>>> literature on this computer fails to do justice to the VR3's feature=
s
>> in
>>>> a
>>>>>> big way.  Since Tom with his hands-on experience didn't expound on
>> them,
>>>>>> here are a few of the highlights that are not on the OMS brochures:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -Phoenix has a web presence ( www.vr3.co.uk ) including an electroni=
c
>>>> copy
>>>>>> of the VR3 user manual
>>>>>> -PC interface comes with the dive unit
>>>>>> -user changeable standard batteries
>>>>>> -never locks out upon deco violations
>>>>>> -dive simulation mode allows contingency tables to be generated from
>> the
>>>>>> dive unit on its own
>>>>>> -capable of complete gas control/programming even while on the dive
>>>>>> -back lighting
>>>>>> -adjustable conservancy/safety factor
>>>>>> -reed switches (mentioned) mean no case penetration for buttons.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Overall this unit appears to have tremendous flexibility but that al=
so
>>>>>> makes for the most complicated user interface that I've seen on a di=
ve
>>>>>> computer.  Still, while I'm not a technophile, I think that I could
>>>> learn to
>>>>>> use this computer and I definitely would like to get my hands on one=
..
>>>> The 2
>>>>>> biggest down sides to this unit are that OMS is marketing the OC
>> trimix
>>>>>> model with an MSRP of $1900 and second, as Tom mentioned, it's
>>>> conservative
>>>>>> because it's based on the ProPlanner algorithm. I know that some of =
my
>>>>>> trimix diving friends down here in FL find ProPlanner to be a little
>> too
>>>>>> conservative for their tastes even when it's set for zero conservati=
on
>>>> (for
>>>>>> some reason they want to get out of the water faster ;-) however,
>> Tom's
>>>>>> recommendation for a special order may resolve this issue.  Of cours=
e
>>>> the
>>>>>> biggest point I've encountered for this trimix computer is that it's
>> in
>>>>>> production and available now.
>>>>>> Safe diving,
>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
>>>>> listserv@mi*.ne*
>>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
>>>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>>>>=20
>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
>>>> listserv@mi*.ne*
>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
>>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
>>> listserv@mi*.ne*
>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.


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