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Thanks, for clarifying, only the good dye young! However, with utmost respect, if you are in such a position that you contro= l all the great caves in the USA as you say you are, and then don=92t you t= herefore have a monopoly? If you don=92t mind me saying that=92s not exactl= y fair sport. If let=92s just say you didn=92t (control the caves) and your= team of 100 was to divide into several smaller DIR groups of maybe 25-50 p= layers each or so of the same people you have trained, would the competitio= n then heat up? This is a sport right? The last group that was in there was= a clusterf*ck in my humble opinion and more of a bad joke then any sort of= competition.:-) -----Original Message----- From: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*> To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver@Aquanaut.Com"<techdiver@aquan= aut.com> Date: Sun May 20 04:06:30 PDT 2001 Subject: Re: Steve Berman > >Terry, would you like to tell me what the history of the WKPP is, or is it >ok for me to do it? The point is that we had a handful of people who would >even try this stuff. The first guy always ready to go was Sheck, but he wa= s >new with the team. Gavin had dove with him once, I dove with him a few >times. The regular three man team was Gavin, Lamar English and myself on >survey. Lamar bailed one day and Exley stepped in, and then Exley and I do= ve >to gether a bunch until he killed himself. He got right on the DIR thing >other than the having to do stupid things like he did to kill himself. He >was as cool as it gets in the toughest dives. He also was game for any cra= zy >thing I dreamed up, and I miss him - he was like a kid. > >Most of the old time WKPP guys had quit , and those who remained had alrea= dy >drawn their own line in the sand. There was a sign along the highway to >Tallahassee that said, "Prepare to meet thy maker". It used to freak >everyone, and I wanted to tear it down, but was afraid to do so, but it >finally rotted and fell down about the time we got serious about DIR in th= e >WKPP. In the wings was my favorite dive partner, JJ, and he and I did all >the other dives that Gavin was not on. Gavin had a thing about not diving >with people under 30 after Sherwood died, and he had a thing about not >diving the horrendous dives too much to save the wear and tear. At that >point even a simple set up dive was what once had been world record dives = at >300 feet. JJ ate those up, and so did Exley, and of course as we now see >with me, the wear and tear factor is a moot point if you DIR. > >We did not have enough qualified people to run the dives the way we do now >where we send multiple teams to set up before the push team and then clean >up after, so JJ and Exley and I did both the setups and the cleanups. The >only reason my guys ( JJ, Casey, etc ) were not on the main dives is that >the other guys were there first, and I since Lamar was my original dive >partner from the time I was certified and Gavin right after that, those tw= o >took me as the next in line and I could survey the fastest. As far as >ability to do these dives and tolerate anything, as well as deal with any >thing and everything at once, JJ is the correct guy, and what makes me so >"good" is knowing that all along , as well as knowing who not to let in th= e >water. > >I hope this clarifies things. There are hundreds and hundreds of people wh= o >have helped with the WKPP at one time or another. > >-----Original Message----- >From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*] >Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 9:30 PM >To: Trey; Michael J. Black; techdiver@aquanaut.com >Subject: Re: Re: Steve Berman > > >>Back then JJ and Exley and I did all the setups , >cleanups and Gavin and= I >did all the dives. > >The world according to George? :-) > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Trey"<trey@ne*.co*> >To: "Michael J. Black"<mjblackmd@ya*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com >Date: Sat May 19 04:46:22 PDT 2001 >Subject: Re: Steve Berman > >>Mike , show me the better way. Go ahead, we are all listening. You yappin= g >>about people is not diving. Show me a better way to dive, show me your >>methods and systems. >> >>Nobody will get on here who knew Berman and say anything different than >what >>JJ and I already said. >> >>I said , Berman came out to help a couple of times years ago, and decided >he >>did not want to do that kind of diving , and he did not want to do it my >way >>, and he did not want to do it my way off the field, or we could have use= d >>him . Back then JJ and Exley and I did all the setups , cleanups and Gavi= n >>and I did all the dives. Now we have over 100 people, so we no longer try >to >>change anyone to fit our methods, we go with those who want to do it our >>way, and that goes for GUE as well. >> >>As I said, Mike, if I catch any WKPP member violating my rules on or off >the >>field, they are gone , and if JJ catches any GUE instructor not doing wha= t >>he wants, they are gone. How much clearer can it get, Mike? >> >>And maybe you can tell me what difference it makes anyway. If somebody do= es >>something stupid, I will always say it was stupid. Everyone can see >Berman's >>dying for nothing is not the way to go. This is an interesting case simpl= y >>because Berman was such a long time diver and was skillful. On the other >>hand there are a ton of can't walk and chew gum cases out there who think >>solo diving is a good idea. Hopefully he set that record straight. >Hopefully >>Sheck set the record straight on diving with morons and diving deep air - >>his 30 years of cave diving got extinguished in one bad move. Berman , >Exley >>and McGuire were a lot tougher than 99% of the divers in the world. They >are >>dead. They did not do it right. >> >>Let me point one more thing out to all you strokes: the reason I get acce= ss >>everywhere? Those who let me dive know I will not let the Exleys dive air= , >>the Bermans dive solo, or the McGuire's dive bottles not properly marked, >>and that is why I have the keys to the kingdom and the assholes who >>constantly fight me get to dive at Ginnie. I can enforce it with my >>authority, and I will set that example, and so will everyone around me or >>they will not be around me for long. Again, you tell me the better way. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Michael J. Black [mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*] >>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:41 PM >>To: Trey; techdiver@aquanaut.com >>Subject: RE: FW: Steve Berman >> >> >>Funny how you Doing-It-Rightists keep lying and denying, and it helps >>your cause so much when you disagree among yourselves. Friends and >>students of Berman's seem to think he was a GUE instructor who dived >>DIR, and helped in the past with the WKPP. Next thing you know, you'll >>be calling him a "stroke," "barnyard stupid." And what's the "body count= " >>for you guys now...McGuirre, Wolvo, Berman, who else? MJB >> >>--- Trey <trey@ne*.co*> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Mike, you believe what you want, but as usual, you are spreading lies >that >>> some bitter person put in your ear. You have no idea who these people a= re >>or >>> what you are talking about anyway, and there is not a single person on >>here >>> who does not recognize that. >>> >>> It is as we said. >>> >>> Steve Berman was not a GUE instructor. In remembering back when Steve >did >>> help with the WKPP, it was when Exley was still alive, so figure out ho= w >>> long ago that was. He showed up a couple of times, and I tried to get h= im >>to >>> run with the ball, but he told me that it was just not for him. >>> >>> Jarrod's way with GUE was not for him either so he did not become a GUE >>> instructor, which he easily could have had he chosen to follow the path >we >>> follow, on and off the field. He did not. Where might he be now if he >>were >>> a GUE instructor? >>> >>> As I said, my players conduct their diving DIR on and of the field or I >ax >>> them, Jarrod's instructors display the GUE example or he axes them. End >of >>> story. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael J. Black [mailto:mjblackmd@ya*.co*] >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:09 AM >>> To: Aquanaut Mail >>> Subject: Re: FW: Steve Berman >>> >>> >>> Who do you wanna believe? >>> >>> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com >>> From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >>> Subject: RE: Ginnie Fatality >>> Date: Fri, 11 May 2001, 07:52:52 - 0400 >>> >>> "He (Berman) did help with WKPP a while back, but like you (Black), he >>> thought I was a huge asshole and did not want to do it my way." >>> >>> To: quest@gu*.co* >>> From: JJ@gu*.co* (Jarrod Jablonski) >>> Subject: Steve Berman >>> Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:38:10 - 0400 >>> >>> "Steve (Berman) had nothing to do with the WKPP or with GUE." >>> >>> For the record, Berman was a GUE instructor who had helped in the past >>> with the WKPP. He dived DIR, and died violating the DIR principle of >>> no solo diving. And for the record, you can count on more lies, denial= s, >>> hypocrisy, and death, from the Doing-It-Rightists. >>> >>> MJB >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >>> http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >>> -- >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'= .. >>> >> >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >>http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >___________________________________________________ >GO.com Mail >Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail =20 Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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