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Jerry,

Somebody sent me this link which has a story and pictures of the damage an
AL80 causes when it explodes this may change your mind about using those 12
tanks you have. Maybe not but the divers that realize the risk and then try
to sell this crap to newbies on ebay without informing them of the risk is
very underhanded, IMO.

Steve kenney

http://www.connected.bc.ca/~baquatics





on 5/20/01 9:59 PM, Jerry Gilbert at CaptainJerry@Ta*.Co* wrote:

Bob, 

You can send the valveless cylinder directly to Luxfer Gas Cylinders, 3016
Kansas Avenue, Riverside, Calif. 92507 USA; telephone 909-684-5110; fax
909-781-6598 yourself with a copy of the test results and $50 bucks. They
will replace it.  You need to call them  and get a Returned Goods
Authorization number first.   After you pay the shipping one way, you'll
have about another $25 in it going UPS ground.  Not hardly worth the trouble
and yes, inconsistent with the "Luxfer Lifetime Warranty" we were all
promised years ago.  Luxfer and aluminum cylinders in general have lost my
trust. 

Luxfer is not the party who originally came up with the Visual Plus system
although they did assist in its development.  Once it was developed in
response to safety issues concerning several catastrophic failures beginning
in June 1994, they recognized it's inherent value and embraced the
technology. 

Sustained Load Cracking in the crown threads is a very real and serious
problem with aluminum cylinders of all makes.  The equivalent explosive
force is approximately equal to that of 50 pounds of 50% TNT going off. It
can maim, kill and destroy everyone and everything in sight.

For this reason and as the "Sustained Load Cracking" phrase implies, all
cylinders should be stored with between 100-500 psi if not going to be used
for extended periods of time.  When filling, the fill rate should never
exceed 600 psi per minutes to allow material sufficient time to expand
correctly without cracking.

To my knowledge, no one has initiated a class action regarding the warranty
issue to date.  I sure wish someone would since I own approximately 12 of
the mid pre-1988 POS cylinders that contained the 6351-T6 alloy that is
believed responsible for this problem.  If you hear of one, let me know and
I'll contribute if it's reasonable. Alton Hall <http://www.divelawyer.com/>
may have information regarding such an action.

I find it amusing if not distressing that many of these cylinders are
appearing on E-Bay on a regular basis to which I notified E-Bay and they
refused to take appropriate action.  It will be interesting to see the legal
ramifications of their policy once one of these cylinders explodes and
causes damages ~ another potential case for Alton.

For current Luxfer Replacement Policies, Click Here
<http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news_articles.asp4.htm> .

From a Luxfer Seminar at the February 2001 DEMA Show, More Details Click
Here <http://www.luxfercylinders.com/scubafaq.html> .
I don't necessarily agree with everything Luxfer states here as fact, but
most of it is accurate if one keeps in mind they hold a vested interest in
how it is composed and comprehended by readers and the legal community.

There is also a wealth of information regarding this subject in the Federal
Register if you care to do a search for it..

This is an older list of the cylinders in question.  The links above have
pushed some of the dates up.

Luxfer USA Ltd. (909) 684-5110
SUSPECT CYLINDERS - LUXFER 6351 ALLOY

            Series No's E6498 SP6498 DOT-3AL manufactured up
            to 01/89

            ALL DOT-3AL tanks under no's 6498, 7042, 8107,
            8364, 8422

            All composite tanks under no's 7235, 8023, 8115

            All Walter Kidde DOT-3AL TANKS

            All Cliff Impact DOT-3AL tanks made before July
            1990 

            All Luxfer 80.8 cu ft tanks made before May 1987

            All Luxfer Scuba tanks made before August 1987

            All other US manufactured tanks made before Feb
            1990 except CATALINA - which were NEVER made from
            6351-T6
            alloy 

Best Regards, 

Jerry Gilbert 
Crawfordville, Florida
mailto:CaptainJerry@Ta*.Co*


You Wrote: 

From: "Robert Barbarite" <barbarite@ea*.ne*>
Subject: Luxfer Scuba Cylinders
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 15:11:15 -0400



I would like to get information on luxfer's policy regarding aluminum
cylinders that fail the Visual Plus test.  I think this is a test designed
by Luxfer? 

I've recently been told (by a local shop) that Luxfer will replace the
cylinder, thru the local shop, but it will cost me $100.00.  Is this shop
being straight? 

This doesn't sound like a terrific deal considering the cylinders were
originally sold with a lifetime warranty.

Is anyone aware of any class action suits pending against Luxfer over this
issue? 

Regards, 
Bob Barbarite 
Marriottsville, MD -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.



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Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Luxfer Cylinder Replacement Policy</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
Jerry,<BR>
<BR>
Somebody sent me this link which has a story and pictures of the damage an =
AL80 causes when it explodes this may change your mind about using those 12 =
tanks you have. Maybe not but the divers that realize the risk and then try =
to sell this crap to newbies on ebay without informing them of the risk is v=
ery underhanded, IMO. <BR>
<BR>
Steve kenney<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT
FACE=3D"Arial"><U>http://www.conne=
cted.bc.ca/~baquatics<BR>
<BR>
</U></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 5/20/01 9:59 PM, Jerry Gilbert at CaptainJerry@Ta*.Co* wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Bob, <BR>
<BR>
You can send the <U>valveless</U> cylinder directly to Luxfer Gas
Cylinders=
, 3016 Kansas Avenue, Riverside, Calif. 92507 USA; telephone 909-684-5110; f=
ax 909-781-6598 yourself with a copy of the test results and $50 bucks. They=
 will replace it.  You need to call them  and get a Returned Goods=
 Authorization number first.   After you pay the shipping one way,=
 you'll have about another $25 in it going UPS ground.  Not hardly wort=
h the trouble and yes, inconsistent with the "Luxfer Lifetime Warranty&=
quot; we were all promised years ago.  Luxfer and aluminum cylinders in=
 general have lost my trust. <BR>
<BR>
Luxfer is not the party who originally came up with the Visual Plus system =
although they did assist in its development.  Once it was developed in =
response to safety issues concerning several catastrophic failures beginning=
 in June 1994, they recognized it's inherent value and embraced the technolo=
gy. <BR>
<BR>
Sustained Load Cracking in the crown threads is a very real and serious pro=
blem with aluminum cylinders of all makes.  The equivalent explosive fo=
rce is approximately equal to that of 50 pounds of 50% TNT going off. It can=
 maim, kill and destroy everyone and everything in sight. <BR>
<BR>
For this reason and as the "<U>Sustained Load</U> Cracking"
phras=
e implies, all cylinders should be stored with between 100-500 psi if not go=
ing to be used for extended periods of time.  When filling, the fill ra=
te should never exceed 600 psi per minutes to allow material sufficient time=
 to expand correctly without cracking. <BR>
<BR>
To my knowledge, no one has initiated a class action regarding the warranty=
 issue to date.  I sure wish someone would since I own approximately 12=
 of the mid pre-1988 POS cylinders that contained the 6351-T6 alloy that is =
believed responsible for this problem.  If you hear of one, let me know=
 and I'll contribute if it's reasonable. Alton Hall <http://www.divelawye=
r.com/>  may have information regarding such an action. <BR>
<BR>
I find it amusing if not distressing that many of these cylinders are appea=
ring on E-Bay on a regular basis to which I notified E-Bay and they refused =
to take appropriate action.  It will be interesting to see the legal ra=
mifications of their policy once one of these cylinders explodes and causes =
damages ~ another potential case for Alton. <BR>
<BR>
For current Luxfer Replacement Policies, Click Here <http://www.luxfercy=
linders.com/news_articles.asp4.htm> . <BR>
<BR>
From a Luxfer Seminar at the February 2001 DEMA Show, More Details Click He=
re <http://www.luxfercylinders.com/scubafaq.html> . <BR>
I don't necessarily agree with everything Luxfer states here as fact, but m=
ost of it is accurate if one keeps in mind they hold a vested interest in ho=
w it is composed and comprehended by readers and the legal community. <BR>
<BR>
There is also a wealth of information regarding this subject in the Federal=
 Register if you care to do a search for it.. <BR>
<BR>
This is an older list of the cylinders in question.  The links above h=
ave pushed some of the dates up. <BR>
<BR>
Luxfer USA Ltd. (909) 684-5110 <BR>
SUSPECT CYLINDERS - LUXFER 6351 ALLOY <BR>
<BR>
             Se=
ries No's E6498 SP6498 DOT-3AL manufactured up <BR>
             to=
 01/89 <BR>
<BR>
             AL=
L DOT-3AL tanks under no's 6498, 7042, 8107, <BR>
             83=
64, 8422 <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l composite tanks under no's 7235, 8023, 8115 <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l Walter Kidde DOT-3AL TANKS <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l Cliff Impact DOT-3AL tanks made before July <BR>
             19=
90 <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l Luxfer 80.8 cu ft tanks made before May 1987 <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l Luxfer Scuba tanks made before August 1987 <BR>
<BR>
             Al=
l other US manufactured tanks made before Feb <BR>
             19=
90 except CATALINA - which were NEVER made from <BR>
             63=
51-T6 <BR>
             al=
loy <BR>
<BR>
Best Regards, <BR>
<BR>
Jerry Gilbert <BR>
Crawfordville, Florida <BR>
mailto:CaptainJerry@Ta*.Co* <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
You Wrote: <BR>
<BR>
From: "Robert Barbarite" <barbarite@ea*.ne*>=08 <BR>
Subject: Luxfer Scuba Cylinders <BR>
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 15:11:15 -0400 <BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
I would like to get information on luxfer's policy regarding aluminum <BR>
cylinders that fail the Visual Plus test.  I think this is a test desi=
gned <BR>
by Luxfer? <BR>
<BR>
I've recently been told (by a local shop) that Luxfer will replace the <BR>
cylinder, thru the local shop, but it will cost me $100.00.  Is this s=
hop <BR>
being straight? <BR>
<BR>
This doesn't sound like a terrific deal considering the cylinders were <BR>
originally sold with a lifetime warranty. <BR>
<BR>
Is anyone aware of any class action suits pending against Luxfer over this =
<BR>
issue? <BR>
<BR>
Regards, <BR>
Bob Barbarite <BR>
Marriottsville, MD -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdi=
ver@aq*.co*'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request=
@aquanaut.com'. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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