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DUI customer service finally hooked me up with their R&D department to =
answer my questions regarding the DUI C-4 that Trey insists on.  I have =
learned not to doubt Trey's experience -- every time I try something he =
says, it turns out he's right.  Nonetheless, there are several kinds of =
Thinsulate (see =
http://www.3m.com/market/consumer/thinsulate/insulations.html), and I =
wanted the story behind the material DUI uses, an explanation about why =
their Thinsulate may be different than the Thinsulate other =
manufacturers use, and a comparison to other materials used by =
undergarment manufacturers.  Here's the story from Bob Stinton at DUI's =
R&D:

The Thinsulate that is used in DUI divewear is Type B and the B stands =
for boot so it is in the Footwear group

Thinsulate Insulation,
Thinsulate Flex Insulation
Thinsulate Lite Loft Insulation
Thinsulate Ultra Extreme Insulation
Thinsulate Ultra Active Insulation
 Thinsulate Insulation for Footwear

Little history: In the beginning there was only type M and it was not =
insulation it was used for cleaning up oil spills. Type M which later =
became type B is 100% polypropyline micro fibers.  As such is produce a =
dense and compression resistant batting which is why it is use in boots. =
 However it dose not make good ski jackets because is dose not have the =
loft like down jackets. All the other variants of Thinsulate are blended =
with different qualities of polyester fibers which act as springs and =
make it more lofty. However this loft is highly compressible, the =
pressure gradient across a dry suit when the diver is vertical in the =
water is about 3 psi and when the diver is in the prone  it is about 1 =
psi.  Type M and later B batting only loses about 40-60 percent of it =
insulation when loaded at these pressure and the other types of high =
loft battings loss 85-95 percent of their insulation under the same =
loading.  Because of this resistance to pressure loading type B is use =
in footwear.

The second property that made the M and later B batting the Navy's =
choice, for critical diving applications, was that dense nature of the =
batting.  The dens packing of the fibers which makes it compression =
resistant also helps it maintain more of its insulation when immersed, =
this is because the fibers are so close together there is not much space =
for water to ingress.

DUI looks at each new variant of 3Ms Thinsulate when it comes out for =
suability for divewear, to date none of these match up with thinsulate.  =
The only material know to come close is a material called Flectalon =
which come from the UK, however Flectalon dose not have wide distributed =
and it is more expensive.  (Red: NEDU Report: Insulation, =
Compressibility and Absorbency of Dry Suit Undergarments.)

Hope this helps

Bob

Engineering


Alex

DUI uses Thinsulate garments with 200 and 400 gm/m2 Type B material.

Regarding the TR1000 garments. The temperature regulating material =
incorporates is micro capsules of wax attached to the fabric.  The =
concept is this wax melts at low temperatures 80-90F. The concept is =
that when you are working hard your skin temperatures warms up and the =
wax is melted and in the process some heat is stored. Then when you skin =
temperature drop the heat in the wax is avalable to you.  The problem is =
the amount of heat that you can store in the wax is minimal, depending =
on the environment it may only be minutes. Its like a car battery, the =
dome light will run for days without running down the battery, however =
you can only crank the starter for minutes.  In theory material is most =
suited for things like skiing, you ski down the mountain and store a =
little heat which is then avalable during the next lift ride up the =
mountain. The key is this thermal storage layer must be next to the skin =
and anything between the skin and it is diminishing its effectiveness, =
it like using 50 ft jumper cables.

This temperature regulating material has been tested in diving =
application about four years ago in diving suits by the Navy and since =
then no further testing has been done, the result where not very =
positive. Also the wax heat storage materials have been around since the =
60's and where tested then for diving.

I know the Army is looking at it in cold weather boots, for situation =
where the solder is going though cycles of work and resting like 15 min =
on 15 min off. Some of the boots in the test with this temperature =
regulating material seam to work better then others.  It is just =
preliminary testing and the results are only minutes between the ones =
that work and don't work.

And yes the material was developed by NASA and the Air Force, however =
the application was for dealing with temperature spikes in in electronic =
cooling system.

If you want to see how it may work for your application you could =
purchase a pair of EC2=D4 Body Sensors  from Terramar at =
http://www.terramarsports.com/sensors.html. They make insulate underwave =
(long johns) for the outdoor market. The EC2=D4 Body Sensors underwear =
contains Outlast temperature regulating fabric.

And yes you could wear this garment under the DUI Thinsulate Divewear, =
as you can any thing that will fit under the divewear as long as it fits =
under the divewear with out binding or restricting your movement and =
breathing. Wearing thing under or over the Thinsulate garment will only =
add to you total insulation, it is like the outdoors it's layering.

As far as the 100 gm/m2 insulation used in the TR1000 divewear I would =
assume that is a high loft type C variant Thinsulate which containing =
polyester fibers. The reason most people us this it is because it is =
less expensive than the type B.  Also you get the marketing advantage =
that you can put the Thinsulate name on you product and most customers =
would not know the difference, its marketing what can I say.

Best regards

Bob



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><>
Diving Unlimited International, Inc.

DUI Divers are a Breed Apart - Join the Pack!
DOGS - DUI Owners Group DOGs at www.DUI-Online
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><>


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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>DUI customer service finally hooked me up with their =
R&D=20
department to answer my questions regarding the DUI C-4 that =
Trey insists=20
on.  I have learned not to doubt Trey's experience -- every time I =
try=20
something he says, it turns out he's right.  Nonetheless, there are =
several=20
kinds of Thinsulate (see <A=20
href=3D"http://www.3m.com/market/consumer/thinsulate/insulations.html">ht=
tp://www.3m.com/market/consumer/thinsulate/insulations.html</A>),=20
and I wanted the story behind the material DUI uses, an =
explanation=20
about why their Thinsulate may be different than the Thinsulate other=20
manufacturers use, and a comparison to other materials used by =
undergarment=20
manufacturers.  Here's the story from Bob Stinton at DUI's=20
R&D:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>The Thinsulate that is used in DUI divewear is Type B and the B =
stands for=20
boot so it is in the Footwear group<BR><BR>Thinsulate =
Insulation,<BR>Thinsulate=20
Flex Insulation<BR>Thinsulate Lite Loft Insulation<BR>Thinsulate Ultra =
Extreme=20
Insulation<BR>Thinsulate Ultra Active Insulation<BR> Thinsulate =
Insulation=20
for Footwear<BR><BR>Little history: In the beginning there was only type =
M and=20
it was not insulation it was used for cleaning up oil spills. Type M =
which later=20
became type B is 100% polypropyline micro fibers.  As such is =
produce a=20
dense and compression resistant batting which is why it is use in =
boots. =20
However it dose not make good ski jackets because is dose not have the =
loft like=20
down jackets. All the other variants of Thinsulate are blended with =
different=20
qualities of polyester fibers which act as springs and make it more =
lofty.=20
However this loft is highly compressible, the pressure gradient across a =
dry=20
suit when the diver is vertical in the water is about 3 psi and when the =
diver=20
is in the prone  it is about 1 psi.  Type M and later B =
batting only=20
loses about 40-60 percent of it insulation when loaded at these pressure =
and the=20
other types of high loft battings loss 85-95 percent of their insulation =
under=20
the same loading.  Because of this resistance to pressure loading =
type B is=20
use in footwear.<BR><BR>The second property that made the M and later B =
batting=20
the Navy's choice, for critical diving applications, was that dense =
nature of=20
the batting.  The dens packing of the fibers which makes it =
compression=20
resistant also helps it maintain more of its insulation when immersed, =
this is=20
because the fibers are so close together there is not much space for =
water to=20
ingress.<BR><BR>DUI looks at each new variant of 3Ms Thinsulate when it =
comes=20
out for suability for divewear, to date none of these match up with=20
thinsulate.  The only material know to come close is a material =
called=20
Flectalon which come from the UK, however Flectalon dose not have wide=20
distributed and it is more expensive.  (Red: NEDU Report: =
Insulation,=20
Compressibility and Absorbency of Dry Suit Undergarments.)<BR><BR>Hope =
this=20
helps<BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR>Engineering<BR><BR><BR>Alex<BR>&
lt;BR>DUI uses =
Thinsulate=20
garments with 200 and 400 gm/m2 Type B material.<BR><BR>Regarding the =
TR1000=20
garments. The temperature regulating material incorporates is micro =
capsules of=20
wax attached to the fabric.  The concept is this wax melts at low=20
temperatures 80-90F. The concept is that when you are working hard your =
skin=20
temperatures warms up and the wax is melted and in the process some heat =
is=20
stored. Then when you skin temperature drop the heat in the wax is =
avalable to=20
you.  The problem is the amount of heat that you can store in the =
wax is=20
minimal, depending on the environment it may only be minutes. Its like a =
car=20
battery, the dome light will run for days without running down the =
battery,=20
however you can only crank the starter for minutes.  In theory =
material is=20
most suited for things like skiing, you ski down the mountain and store =
a little=20
heat which is then avalable during the next lift ride up the mountain. =
The key=20
is this thermal storage layer must be next to the skin and anything =
between the=20
skin and it is diminishing its effectiveness, it like using 50 ft jumper =

cables.<BR><BR>This temperature regulating material has been tested in =
diving=20
application about four years ago in diving suits by the Navy and since =
then no=20
further testing has been done, the result where not very positive. Also =
the wax=20
heat storage materials have been around since the 60's and where tested =
then for=20
diving.<BR><BR>I know the Army is looking at it in cold weather boots, =
for=20
situation where the solder is going though cycles of work and resting =
like 15=20
min on 15 min off. Some of the boots in the test with this temperature=20
regulating material seam to work better then others.  It is just=20
preliminary testing and the results are only minutes between the ones =
that work=20
and don't work.<BR><BR>And yes the material was developed by NASA and =
the Air=20
Force, however the application was for dealing with temperature spikes =
in in=20
electronic cooling system.<BR><BR>If you want to see how it may work for =
your=20
application you could purchase a pair of EC2=D4 Body Sensors  from =
Terramar=20
at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.terramarsports.com/sensors.html">http://www.terramarsp=
orts.com/sensors.html</A>.=20
They make insulate underwave (long johns) for the outdoor market. The =
EC2=D4 Body=20
Sensors underwear contains Outlast temperature regulating =
fabric.<BR><BR>And yes=20
you could wear this garment under the DUI Thinsulate Divewear, as you =
can any=20
thing that will fit under the divewear as long as it fits under the =
divewear=20
with out binding or restricting your movement and breathing. Wearing =
thing under=20
or over the Thinsulate garment will only add to you total insulation, it =
is like=20
the outdoors it's layering.<BR><BR>As far as the 100 gm/m2 insulation =
used in=20
the TR1000 divewear I would assume that is a high loft type C variant =
Thinsulate=20
which containing polyester fibers. The reason most people us this it is =
because=20
it is less expensive than the type B.  Also you get the marketing =
advantage=20
that you can put the Thinsulate name on you product and most customers =
would not=20
know the difference, its marketing what can I say.<BR><BR>Best=20
regards<BR><BR>Bob<BR><BR><BR><BR><><><><
><>=
;<><><><><><><><><>=
<><><><><><><><BR>Diving=20
Unlimited International, Inc.<BR><BR>DUI Divers are a Breed Apart - Join =
the=20
Pack!<BR>DOGS - DUI Owners Group DOGs at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.DUI-Online">www.DUI-Online</A><BR><><><=
><><><><><><><><><&=
gt;<><><><><><><><><&g=
t;<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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