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Pat Watson is an idiot if he told you to do that. Pat Watson is not DIR, =
he does not do any of the kind of diving we do, he has little or no =
understanding of most dive gear, and if he is pretending he does =
anything we do, he is full of shit. He is an Alabama red neck , and I am =
not even remotely interested in protecting him because he is a "nice =
guy" when he is running around doing dumb things, if indeed he is . Now =
you can tell us all the reasons why this bullshit of putting the knob =
facing down is a good idea. There are no good reasons : it is too stupid =
to have any reasons other than paranoia which then sets up additional =
problems and solves none.
The correct way to rig these manifolds is to leave the isolator faced =
slightly forward . This is the easiest position to reach it, and it will =
not be sticking up to catch anything. The retaining nuts on the shaft =
are left finger tight, so that if you do hit anything, the center =
section merely spins harmlessly. The double barrel o ring design allows =
this on any proper manifold, and always has, and is counter threaded so =
that spinning in one direction does not disrupt anything as it would in =
the manifolds that are not counter threaded.
I repeat, you are a complete neophyte and an obvious moron. You need to =
take the cotton out of your ears and quit dispensing advice. You have =
nothing that anyone wants or needs, and with your attitude, you never =
will.=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David E. Smith=20
To: George Irvine ; David Sweetin=20
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: RE: Isolating Manifold Question
Gee George.
I didn't realize you consider Pat Watson a blithering idiot.
Although I have seen this technique in the past, I did not
start doing it until I observed him doing it and discussed=20
it with him.
You DO know him right? You guys have sort of a past.
Don't you?
=20
BTW, as I would HOPE you know. Turning the valve upside
down has no effect on the performance of the valve. Only
on the human interface with it. So my "expertise" on valves
(real or perceived) is irrelevant here. But, I would hope
you already knew that. If you do, you, as usual, are just
spouting off again. If you don't, you are an idiot. =20
David E. Smith
=20
P.S. Has anyone ever figured out what percentage of George's posts=20
are cussing, and names (e.g. stroke, farm animal, neophyte, etc.) and
how much is the useful information everyone hails him for?
dsmith218@ho*.co*
ICQ# 25409809
Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. - =
Polver
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: George Irvine [mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:00 AM
To: David E. Smith; David Sweetin
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Dave, now that you have put out this piece of complete bullshit and in =
your little mind successfully obfuscated the realities that actually go =
into the thinking of manifold operation underwater in diving ( and there =
is no way you do jack shit in diving ), why don't you go ahead an =
entertain us all by telling us what kind of blithering idiot turns the =
isolator knob upside down? Since you are such a big "expert" on valves, =
maybe you can tell us all what this accomplishes, besides acting as a =
visible "tip of the iceberg" warning to anyone who sees you that you are =
a complete stroke who has no clue and is likely to act in a bad =
situation just as one could expect by this kind of rabbits foot =
thinking?=20
From: David E. Smith=20
To: David Sweetin=20
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Isolating Manifold Question
I agree with you...except I would go a little further. (Refer to my =
post
to Joel for my excuse for my "short" statement about open or shut.)
I would just add to your statement that FULLY open is not the only
case of the valve being open. Here is why:
=20
Once the valve is open a certain amount the path is no longer =
effectively restricted.=20
For a given size opening (i.e. isolator valve opening), there is a =
critical differential=20
pressure. Once that critical differential pressure is reached, flow =
rate will not increase=20
even if the differential pressure increases. Working this backwards =
(kind of), if the=20
opening of your isolator keeps the flow rate across the isolator for =
the maximum=20
your regulator would deliver during normal breathing (in other words =
not a free flow=20
malfunction)... And the differential pressure across the isolator is =
minimal (as it would=20
be in normal cases)...The only time a partially open manifold would =
be TOO restricted,=20
was when the flow rate out of a orifice caused a differential =
pressure large enough to=20
exceed the critical differential pressure AND the flow rate for that =
opening did not keep up with
the flow rate out of the orifice. That flow rate would correspond =
to a failed regulator and you=20
would not want the tanks to equalize anyway!
=20
Now....Having said ALL that...Have I or would I do this =
calculation...NO WAY. Although with a=20
little experimenting one could determine that it did not take much =
for the flow rate across the=20
isolator to keep up with breathing. This experiment could be =
performed on a single tank and=20
regulator (just watch the SPG to see if it dips or not). In any =
case...The point of this verbose=20
post is only to say that partially open does not mean shut. =
Partially open does not necessarily=20
mean restricted.
So dive the way you determine to be safe...smart...whatever...
Just make the arguments make sense.
=20
Cheers!
dsmith218@ho*.co*
ICQ# 25409809
Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. =
- Polver
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: David Sweetin [mailto:dsweetin@ea*.ne*]
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:08 AM
To: David E. Smith
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Just a clarification,
=20
If it is not shut, it is either RESTRICTED, or open.
The restricted orifice concept is part of basic open water training.
Now dust off those basic scuba books and tell us what it says about =
that.
Dave
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David E. Smith=20
Subject: RE: Isolating Manifold Question
I say again, louder...
=20
If it is not shut, it is open.
=20
(This is a good argument, don't you think?)
dsmith218@ho*.co*
ICQ# 25409809
Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am =
neither. - Polver
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Silverstein [mailto:JoelSilverstein@sn*.ne*]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 12:48 AM
To: David E. Smith; RDecker388@ao*.co*; rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: Isolating Manifold Question
If it's not open it's closed.=20
At 10:18 PM 4/14/2001 -0400, David E. Smith wrote:
I don't think it is "common sense" that a valve be fully open or
fully shut. That is a matter of opinion. Clearly there are
arguments/opinions
for either method (fully open or partially shut).
dsmith218@ho*.co*
ICQ# 25409809
Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am =
neither. -
Polver
-----Original Message-----
From: RDecker388@ao*.co* [mailto:RDecker388@ao*.co*]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:55 PM
To: rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
In a message dated 4/14/01 9:55:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rikard.lundgren@sw*.se* writes:
> >As for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers =
taking there
> first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD or TDI,
> >, as shut downs are apart of syllabus, my instructor & =
people i have
> listened to use this method, and as far as i a aware As the =
said
> organisations are wide spread >around Europe , i can only =
conclude that
they
> are also shown this method.
>
I suspect this is more a matter of the individual instructor =
than what's
actually in the standards. I've read both of these agency's =
standards at
one
time or another and do not recall a single line about requiring =
paritially
open ISOs.
Common sense dictates that all valves need to be either all the =
way on or
all
the way off. In a stressful situation requiring a valve =
shut-down it would
be way too easy to turn the valve the wrong way if it's only =
partly open.
With a strict on/off approach, the valve is only going to turn =
one way......
THE RIGHT ONE! Bare handed, gloves or mitts, shutting down a =
valve is not a
difficult matter with a little practice.
Bob D.
www.SportDiverHQ.com
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to =
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Pat Watson is an idiot if he told you to do that. =
Pat Watson=20
is not DIR, he does not do any of the kind of diving we do, he has =
little or no=20
understanding of most dive gear, and if he is pretending he does =
anything we do,=20
he is full of shit. He is an Alabama red neck , and I am not even =
remotely=20
interested in protecting him because he is a "nice guy" when he is =
running=20
around doing dumb things, if indeed he is . Now you can tell us all the =
reasons=20
why this bullshit of putting the knob facing down is a good idea. There =
are no=20
good reasons : it is too stupid to have any reasons other than =
paranoia=20
which then sets up additional problems and solves none.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>The correct way to rig these manifolds is to leave =
the=20
isolator faced slightly forward . This is the easiest position to reach =
it, and=20
it will not be sticking up to catch anything. The retaining nuts on the =
shaft=20
are left finger tight, so that if you do hit anything, the center =
section merely=20
spins harmlessly. The double barrel o ring design allows this on any =
proper=20
manifold, and always has, and is counter threaded so that spinning in =
one=20
direction does not disrupt anything as it would in the manifolds that =
are not=20
counter threaded.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>I repeat, you are a complete neophyte and an obvious =
moron.=20
You need to take the cotton out of your ears and quit dispensing advice. =
You=20
have nothing that anyone wants or needs, and with your attitude, you =
never will.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dsmith218@ho*.co*" title=3Ddsmith218@ho*.co*>David =
E.=20
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*"=20
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George Irvine</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dsweetin@ea*.ne*" =
title=3Ddsweetin@ea*.ne*>David=20
Sweetin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 18,
2001 =
7:14=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Isolating
Manifold =
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>Gee=20
George.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001> I=20
didn't realize you consider Pat Watson a blithering =
idiot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>Although I=20
have seen this technique in the past, I did not</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>start=20
doing it until I observed him doing it and discussed =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>it with=20
him.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001> You=20
DO know him right? You guys have sort of a =
past.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>Don't=20
you?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D610411023-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>BTW, as I=20
would HOPE you know. Turning the valve =
upside</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>down has=20
no effect on the performance of the valve. =
Only</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>on the=20
human interface with it. So my "expertise" on =
valves</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>(real or=20
perceived) is irrelevant here. But, I would =
hope</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>you=20
already knew that. If you do, you, as usual, are=20
just</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>spouting=20
off again. If you don't, you are an idiot. =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>David E.=20
Smith</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D610411023-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>P.S. =20
Has anyone ever figured out what percentage of George's posts=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>are=20
cussing, and names (e.g. stroke, farm animal, neophyte, etc.)=20
and</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D610411023-18042001>how much=20
is the useful information everyone hails him for?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#808000=20
face=3D"Lucida Handwriting">dsmith218@ho*.co*<BR></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000080=20
face=3DTahoma>ICQ# 25409809</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" size=3D4>Moderation =
is for the=20
poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. - Polver<BR> =
</FONT></P>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> George Irvine=20
[mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 18, 2001 =
7:00=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> David E. Smith; David
Sweetin<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating Manifold=20
Question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Dave, now that you have put out this piece of =
complete=20
bullshit and in your little mind successfully obfuscated the realities =
that=20
actually go into the thinking of manifold operation underwater in =
diving ( and=20
there is no way you do jack shit in diving ), why don't you go ahead =
an=20
entertain us all by telling us what kind of blithering idiot turns the =
isolator knob upside down? Since you are such a big "expert" on =
valves, maybe=20
you can tell us all what this accomplishes, besides acting as a =
visible "tip=20
of the iceberg" warning to anyone who sees you that you are a complete =
stroke=20
who has no clue and is likely to act in a bad situation just as one =
could=20
expect by this kind of rabbits foot thinking? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dsmith218@ho*.co*" =
title=3Ddsmith218@ho*.co*>David E.=20
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dsweetin@ea*.ne*" =
title=3Ddsweetin@ea*.ne*>David=20
Sweetin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 17,
2001 =
8:53=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>I agree=20
with you...except I would go a little further. (Refer to my=20
post</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>to Joel=20
for my excuse for my "short" statement about open or=20
shut.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>I would=20
just add to your statement that FULLY open is not the=20
only</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>case of=20
the valve being open. Here is why:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>Once the=20
valve is open a certain amount </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001>the path is no longer =
effectively=20
restricted. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>For a given size opening (i.e. =
isolator valve=20
opening), </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>there</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> is a critical =
differential=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>pressure. Once that =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>critical</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> differential =
pressure=20
is</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001> reached, flow rate will not =
increase=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>even</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> if the differential=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>pressure increases.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>Working this=20
backwards (kind of), if the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>opening=20
of your isolator keeps the flow</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> rate =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D4><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma size=3D3><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001>across the isolator =
for the=20
maximum </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma =
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001>your regulator would=20
deliver</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001> during normal breathing (in other words =
not a free=20
flow </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma =
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>malfunction)...</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> And the differential =
pressure=20
across the isolator is minimal (as it would </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>be in=20
normal cases)...The only time a partially open manifold would=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>be TOO restricted, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>was when=20
the flow rate out of a orifice caused a </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>differential=20
pressure large enough to </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>exceed=20
the critical differential</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001> pressure AND the flow rate for that =
opening did=20
not keep up with</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>the flow=20
rate out of the orifice. That flow rate would correspond to=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>a failed regulator and you =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>would=20
not want the tanks to equalize</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DTahoma><SPAN class=3D030363400-18042001> =
anyway!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></FONT></FON
T>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>Now....Having said ALL that...Have =
I or would=20
I do this calculation...NO WAY. Although with a =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>little=20
experimenting one could determine that it did not take much for the =
flow=20
rate across the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>isolator=20
to keep up with breathing. This experiment could be performed =
on a=20
single tank and </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>regulator (just watch the SPG to see =
if it=20
dips or not).</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff
face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001> In any case...The point of this =
verbose=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>post is=20
only to say that partially open does not mean shut. =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>Partially open does=20
not necessarily </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>mean=20
restricted.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>So dive=20
the way you determine to be =
safe...smart...whatever...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030363400-18042001>Just=20
make the arguments make sense.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030363400-18042001>Cheers!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#808000=20
face=3D"Lucida Handwriting">dsmith218@ho*.co*<BR></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000080=20
face=3DTahoma>ICQ# 25409809</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" =
size=3D4>Moderation is for the=20
poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. - Polver<BR> =20
</FONT></P>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> David
Sweetin=20
[mailto:dsweetin@ea*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 17, =
2001=20
11:08 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David E. Smith<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating Manifold=20
Question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just a clarification,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If it is not shut, it is either
</FONT><FONT=20
size=3D3>RESTRICTED, </FONT><FONT size=3D2>or open.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The restricted orifice concept is part of basic =
open water=20
training.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now dust off those basic scuba books and tell us =
what it=20
says about that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dsmith218@ho*.co*" =
title=3Ddsmith218@ho*.co*>David E.=20
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030290700-17042001>I say=20
again, louder...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030290700-17042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030290700-17042001>If it=20
is not shut, it is open.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
class=3D030290700-17042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DTahoma><SPAN =
class=3D030290700-17042001>(This=20
is a good argument, don't you think?)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#808000 face=3D"Lucida =
Handwriting"><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dsmith218@ho*.co*">dsmith218@home.com</A><BR></FONT><
FONT=
=20
color=3D#000080 face=3DTahoma>ICQ# 25409809</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" =
size=3D4>Moderation is for=20
the poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. - =
Polver<BR> =20
</FONT></P>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Joel =
Silverstein [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:JoelSilverstein@sn*.ne*">mailto:JoelSilverstein@snet.net<=
/A>]<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Sunday, April 15, 2001 12:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B> David E. Smith;
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:RDecker388@ao*.co*">RDecker388@aol.com</A>; <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*">rikard.lundgren@swipnet.se</A>=
<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A><BR><B
>S=
ubject:</B>=20
RE: Isolating Manifold Question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT =
size=3D3>If it's=20
not open it's closed. <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 10:18 PM
4/14/2001 =
-0400,=20
David E. Smith wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite type=3D"cite" cite>I don't think it is =
"common=20
sense" that a valve be fully open or<BR>fully shut. That =
is a=20
matter of opinion. Clearly there =
are<BR>arguments/opinions<BR>for=20
either method (fully open or partially=20
shut).<BR><BR>dsmith218@ho*.co*<BR>ICQ# =
25409809<BR><BR>Moderation is=20
for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither.=20
-<BR>Polver<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original =
Message-----<BR>From:=20
RDecker388@ao*.co* [<A href=3D"mailto:RDecker388@ao*.co*"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:RDecker388@ao*.co*</A>]<BR>Sent: =
Saturday, April=20
14, 2001 7:55 PM<BR>To: rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*<BR>Cc:=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR>Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold=20
Question<BR><BR><BR>In a message dated 4/14/01 9:55:22 AM =
Eastern=20
Daylight Time,<BR>rikard.lundgren@sw*.se* writes:<BR><BR>> =
>As=20
for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers taking=20
there<BR>> first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD =
or=20
TDI,<BR>> >, as shut downs are apart of=20
syllabus, my instructor & people i have<BR>> =
listened to=20
use this method, and as far as i a aware As the said<BR>>=20
organisations are wide spread >around Europe , i can only =
conclude=20
that<BR>they<BR>> are also shown this =
method.<BR>><BR><BR><BR>I=20
suspect this is more a matter of the individual instructor than=20
what's<BR>actually in the standards. I've read both of =
these=20
agency's standards at<BR>one<BR>time or another and do not =
recall a=20
single line about requiring paritially<BR>open =
ISOs.<BR><BR>Common sense=20
dictates that all valves need to be either all the way on=20
or<BR>all<BR>the way off. In a stressful situation =
requiring a=20
valve shut-down it would<BR>be way too easy to turn the valve =
the wrong=20
way if it's only partly open.<BR>With a strict on/off approach, =
the=20
valve is only going to turn one way......<BR>THE RIGHT =
ONE! Bare=20
handed, gloves or mitts, shutting down a valve is not =
a<BR>difficult=20
matter with a little practice.<BR><BR>Bob D.<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sportdiverhq.com/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">www.SportDiverHQ.com</A><BR>--<BR>Send mail
=
for the=20
`techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<BR>Send=20
subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.<BR><BR>--<BR>Send mail for
the =
`techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.<BR>Send=20
subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20
=
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></
BLOCK=
QUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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