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Which is the real problem you should be worried about? Which failure is
more likely?
1) A gas mixing error that has the potential to kill you (human error), or
2) A leaking manifold that you can shut down in a few seconds with practice
(mechanical error)?
Listen to what people are saying. Don't follow your training blindly and
then argue that it's right because everyone does it. Understand the
complete system and the principles behind it.
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: adrian scothern [mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:37 AM
To: Richard Lundgren; George Irvine; techdiver-aquanaut.com; Chris Tibble
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Richard,
i dive with the ISO open just enough for the cylinders to equalise, in the
event of a free flow , i don't waste time having to turn the ISO off from
fully on , as with cold hands or thick dry gloves ,this would make life
difficult!( Why should i make it harder for myself?????),.
As for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers taking there
first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD or TDI,
, as shut downs are apart of syllabus, my instructor & people i have
listened to use this method, and as far as i a aware As the said
organisations are wide spread around Europe , i can only conclude that they
are also shown this method.
A
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Lundgren
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris
Tibble
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Adrian,
Not likely, the only reason to do it like you suggest is inexperience or
lack of understanding. Follow the tread and Im shure you understand why you
are wrong and how you would benefit from doing it right.It would be a shame
if 3/4 of our european guys would be that ignorant and I find it pretty hard
to belive, dont make up statistic figures on your own to prove your point,
it will not work.
regards,
Richard Lundgren
----- Original Message -----
From: adrian scothern
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris
Tibble
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Well, i've been diving with the ISO two half turns , since having a
twin set!, and proberley 3/4 OF Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way, I'm
Sorry that i've No Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD
-- Original Message -----
From: George Irvine
To: adrian scothern ; Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
And what bullshit paranoia do you attribute the "two half turns "
to? This is the kind of mindless crap that gets people killed. I will say
right here and now that you can come up with no reason to do something that
stupid that makes any sense what so ever. Give it a try.
----- Original Message -----
From: adrian scothern
To: Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
I have the ISO two half turn's on, and I think the key is to ,
Know your kit inside out, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over 30
hours ,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and Do know my
current config Insideout , the wife finds this highly amusing if/when she
walks in . same goe's for inwater training dives .
ady
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Tibble
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Isolating Manifold Question
Just a quickie. I'm just about to buy my first twinset with a
manifold. I've dived twins before, independents because of fiscal reasons
(I'm a poor student!) What I need to know is this. Some of the people I have
talked to who dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a turn, whilst
others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see advantages and
disadvantages to both:
All the way
Adv: No risk of turning wrong way
Disadv: May get stuck if turned on all way
Have to turn it 3 turns (or whatever)
Part way
Adv: V fast way of isolating
Disadv: Can turn it the wrong way
Not having it open all the way may limit
equalisation across the manifold.
Now any or all of this may be unmitigated rubbish, but it's
just what I was thinking about last night.
Any comments/suggestions as to how best to do it?
As this is my first post, go easy on me - I'm still learning!
Many thanks,
Chris
--
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh
at that man.
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Which=20
is the real problem you should be worried about? Which failure is =
more=20
likely?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>1) A=20
gas mixing error that has the potential to kill you (human error),=20
or</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>2) A=20
leaking manifold that you can shut down in a few seconds with practice=20
(mechanical error)?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Listen=20
to what people are saying. Don't follow your training blindly and =
then=20
argue that it's right because everyone does it. Understand the =
complete=20
system and the principles behind it<FONT face=3DTahoma=20
color=3D#000000>.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D930324213-14042001></SPAN><FONT
face=3DTahoma><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D930324213-14042001><FONT=20
face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff>Kurt</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D930324213-14042001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D930324213-14042001> </SPAN>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
adrian scothern [mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Saturday,=20
April 14, 2001 3:37 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard Lundgren; George
Irvine;=20
techdiver-aquanaut.com; Chris Tibble<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i dive with the ISO open just enough =
for the=20
cylinders to equalise, in the event of a free flow , i don't waste =
time having=20
to turn the ISO off from fully on , as with cold hands or thick dry =
gloves=20
,this would make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for=20
myself?????),.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the 3/4 of European divers =
using this=20
method, divers taking there first steps into tech training , do so =
with IANTD=20
or TDI,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>, as shut downs are apart of =
syllabus, my=20
instructor & people i have listened to use this method, and =
as far=20
as i a aware As the said organisations are wide spread around =
Europe , i=20
can only conclude that they are also shown this method.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drikard.lundgren@sw*.se*=20
href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*">Richard Lundgren</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George =
Irvine</A>=20
; <A title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; =
<A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 14, =
2001 9:49=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not likely, the only reason to do =
it like you=20
suggest is inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread =
and Im=20
shure you understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit =
from doing=20
it right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be =
that=20
ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic =
figures=20
on your own to prove your point, it will not work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard Lundgren</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> ; <A =
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George=20
Irvine</A> ; <A title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13, =
2001 12:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, i've been
diving =
with the ISO=20
two half turns , since having a twin set!, and proberley =
3/4 OF=20
Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry that =
i've No=20
Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD =20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George=20
Irvine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> ; =
<A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April
13, =
2001=20
11:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>And what bullshit paranoia do you =
attribute the "two=20
half turns " to? This is the kind of mindless crap that =
gets=20
people killed. I will say right here and now that you can come =
up with=20
no reason to do something that stupid that makes any sense =
what so=20
ever. Give it a try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian =
scothern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday,
April =
12, 2001=20
7:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
Isolating Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the ISO two =
half turn's on,=20
and I think the key is to , <STRONG>Know your kit inside=20
out</STRONG>, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over 30 =
hours=20
,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and =
Do know=20
my current config Insideout , the wife finds =
this=20
highly amusing if/when she walks in . same goe's for inwater =
training dives .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ady</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris =
Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
April 12,=20
2001 6:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B>
Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a quickie. I'm just =
about to buy=20
my first twinset with a manifold. I've dived twins before, =
independents because of fiscal reasons (I'm a poor =
student!) What=20
I need to know is this. Some of the people I have talked =
to who=20
dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a turn, =
whilst=20
others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see =
advantages=20
and disadvantages to both:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20
No risk of turning wrong =
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: =
May get=20
stuck if turned on all way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
=20
Have to turn it 3 =
turns (or=20
whatever)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Part way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20
V fast way of isolating</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: =
Can turn it=20
the wrong way </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; Not=20
having it open all the way may limit equalisation across =
the=20
manifold.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now any or all of this =
may be=20
unmitigated rubbish, but it's just what I was thinking =
about last=20
night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any comments/suggestions =
as to how=20
best to do it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As this is my first post, =
go easy on=20
me - I'm still learning!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many
thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It takes a big man to =
cry, but it=20
takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.<BR></DIV>
=
<DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO
CKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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