This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0C4E6.A2C33C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >i dive with the ISO open just enough for the cylinders to equalise, in = the event of a free flow , i >don't waste time having to turn the ISO = off from fully on , as with cold hands or thick dry >gloves ,this would = make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for myself?????),. If you can't get to the post quickly for some odd reason, then just bend = the LP hose back onto itself to stop the free flow. Then you can sort = things out, shut down the appropriate post and minimize gas loss. You = can also use this to conserve gas in the event of the broken knob = scenario where you have to shut down the ISO because you can't stop the = free flow. Just be aware that you cannot totally shut down the flow or = you risk rupturing the LP hose if the free flow is caused by a bad HP = seat. In that instance you would have to intermittently release the = bend to vent the pressure or allow it to steadily trickle. =20 I guess the whole point is that there are many ways to manage the = potential problem without introducing a bigger potential problem. The = probability of an unmanageable free flow on well maintained gear is = slim. The probability of that free flow killing you is nil. A closed = ISO can kill you before you reach the bottom in a myriad of ways = including unwittingly breathing a hypoxic or hyperoxic mix or breathing = an empty tank because they only filled one on your set and the ISO is = closed. For those reasons the ISO should always be fully open and not = be played with by anyone other than yourself for the purpose of = verifying that it is functional and that it is open. =20 If you ponder this a bit you will see the logic. Good luck. Joe Citelli =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: adrian scothern=20 To: Richard Lundgren ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris = Tibble=20 Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question Richard, i dive with the ISO open just enough for the cylinders to equalise, in = the event of a free flow , i don't waste time having to turn the ISO off = from fully on , as with cold hands or thick dry gloves ,this would make = life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for myself?????),. As for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers taking = there first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD or TDI, , as shut downs are apart of syllabus, my instructor & people i have = listened to use this method, and as far as i a aware As the said = organisations are wide spread around Europe , i can only conclude that = they are also shown this method. A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard Lundgren=20 To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris = Tibble=20 Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question Adrian, =20 Not likely, the only reason to do it like you suggest is = inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread and Im shure you = understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit from doing it = right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be that = ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic = figures on your own to prove your point, it will not work. =20 regards, Richard Lundgren ----- Original Message -----=20 From: adrian scothern=20 To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; = Chris Tibble=20 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:38 PM Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question Well, i've been diving with the ISO two half turns , since = having a twin set!, and proberley 3/4 OF Europe dive's The BullShit = Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry that i've No Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF = THE UNDERWATER WORLD =20 -- Original Message -----=20 From: George Irvine=20 To: adrian scothern ; Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com=20 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question And what bullshit paranoia do you attribute the "two half = turns " to? This is the kind of mindless crap that gets people killed. = I will say right here and now that you can come up with no reason to do = something that stupid that makes any sense what so ever. Give it a try. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: adrian scothern=20 To: Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question I have the ISO two half turn's on, and I think the key is to = , Know your kit inside out, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over = 30 hours ,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and Do = know my current config Insideout , the wife finds this highly amusing = if/when she walks in . same goe's for inwater training dives . ady ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chris Tibble=20 To: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:28 PM Subject: Isolating Manifold Question Just a quickie. I'm just about to buy my first twinset = with a manifold. I've dived twins before, independents because of fiscal = reasons (I'm a poor student!) What I need to know is this. Some of the = people I have talked to who dive manis only open their iso knob about = 1/2 a turn, whilst others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can = see advantages and disadvantages to both: =20 All the way Adv: No risk of turning wrong way =20 Disadv: May get stuck if turned on all way Have to turn it 3 turns (or whatever) =20 Part way Adv: V fast way of isolating =20 Disadv: Can turn it the wrong way=20 Not having it open all the way may limit = equalisation across the manifold. =20 Now any or all of this may be unmitigated rubbish, but = it's just what I was thinking about last night. =20 Any comments/suggestions as to how best to do it? =20 As this is my first post, go easy on me - I'm still = learning! =20 Many thanks, =20 Chris =20 =20 -- It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to = laugh at that man. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0C4E6.A2C33C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>i dive with the ISO open just = enough for the=20 cylinders to equalise, in the event of a free flow , i >don't waste = time=20 having to turn the ISO off from fully on , as with cold hands or thick = dry=20 >gloves ,this would make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder = for=20 myself?????),.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you can't get to the post quickly for some odd reason, then just = bend=20 the LP hose back onto itself to stop the free flow. Then you can = sort=20 things out, shut down the appropriate post and minimize gas loss. = You can=20 also use this to conserve gas in the event of the broken knob scenario = where you=20 have to shut down the ISO because you can't stop the free flow. = Just be=20 aware that you cannot totally shut down the flow or you risk rupturing = the LP=20 hose if the free flow is caused by a bad HP seat. In that instance = you=20 would have to intermittently release the bend to vent the pressure or = allow it=20 to steadily trickle. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess the whole point is that there are many ways to manage the = potential=20 problem without introducing a bigger potential problem. The=20 probability of an unmanageable free flow on well maintained gear is=20 slim. The probability of that free flow killing you is = nil. A=20 closed ISO can kill you before you reach the bottom in a myriad of ways=20 including unwittingly breathing a hypoxic or hyperoxic mix or breathing = an empty=20 tank because they only filled one on your set and the ISO is = closed. For=20 those reasons the ISO should always be fully open and not be played with = by=20 anyone other than yourself for the purpose of verifying that it is = functional=20 and that it is open. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you ponder this a bit you will see the logic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good luck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joe Citelli </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*"=20 title=3Drikard.lundgren@sw*.se*>Richard Lundgren</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George = Irvine</A> ;=20 <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 14, 2001 = 7:37=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating Manifold = Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i dive with the ISO open just enough = for the=20 cylinders to equalise, in the event of a free flow , i don't waste = time having=20 to turn the ISO off from fully on , as with cold hands or thick dry = gloves=20 ,this would make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for=20 myself?????),.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the 3/4 of European divers = using this=20 method, divers taking there first steps into tech training , do so = with IANTD=20 or TDI,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>, as shut downs are apart of = syllabus, my=20 instructor & people i have listened to use this method, and = as far=20 as i a aware As the said organisations are wide spread around = Europe , i=20 can only conclude that they are also shown this method.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*"=20 title=3Drikard.lundgren@sw*.se*>Richard Lundgren</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George = Irvine</A>=20 ; <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 14, = 2001 9:49=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating = Manifold=20 Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not likely, the only reason to do = it like you=20 suggest is inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread = and Im=20 shure you understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit = from doing=20 it right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be = that=20 ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic = figures=20 on your own to prove your point, it will not work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard Lundgren</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" = title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George=20 Irvine</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13, = 2001 12:38=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating = Manifold=20 Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, i've been diving = with the ISO=20 two half turns , since having a twin set!, and proberley = 3/4 OF=20 Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry that = i've No=20 Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD =20 </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" = title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George=20 Irvine</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13, = 2001=20 11:19 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating = Manifold=20 Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4>And what bullshit paranoia do you = attribute the "two=20 half turns " to? This is the kind of mindless crap that = gets=20 people killed. I will say right here and now that you can come = up with=20 no reason to do something that stupid that makes any sense = what so=20 ever. Give it a try.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20 title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> ; <A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April = 12, 2001=20 7:04 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: = Isolating Manifold=20 Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the ISO two = half turn's on,=20 and I think the key is to , <STRONG>Know your kit inside=20 out</STRONG>, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over 30 = hours=20 ,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and = Do know=20 my current config Insideout , the wife finds = this=20 highly amusing if/when she walks in . same goe's for inwater = training dives .</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ady</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message = ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; = font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20 title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20 title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, = April 12,=20 2001 6:28 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Isolating = Manifold=20 Question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a quickie. I'm just = about to buy=20 my first twinset with a manifold. I've dived twins before, = independents because of fiscal reasons (I'm a poor = student!) What=20 I need to know is this. Some of the people I have talked = to who=20 dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a turn, = whilst=20 others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see = advantages=20 and disadvantages to both:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20 No risk of turning wrong = way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: = May get=20 stuck if turned on all way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> = =20 Have to turn it 3 = turns (or=20 whatever)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Part way</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20 V fast way of isolating</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: = Can turn it=20 the wrong way </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20 = size=3D2> &nbs= p; Not=20 having it open all the way may limit equalisation across = the=20 manifold.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now any or all of this = may be=20 unmitigated rubbish, but it's just what I was thinking = about last=20 night.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any comments/suggestions = as to how=20 best to do it?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As this is my first post, = go easy on=20 me - I'm still learning!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It takes a big man to = cry, but it=20 takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.<BR></DIV> = <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO CKQUOTE></BLOC= KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0C4E6.A2C33C40-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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