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Folks
I have been away from the list for a couple of years. I assume this is
still the same thread that was under way when I left. At the time there
were so many opinions that I decided I could not trust any of them. I
studied my manifold and asked certain fundamental questions
Why is the manifold there?
Why does it have an isolator valve?
How do I know the whole system is working?
What are the different ways this system could fail?
How do you prevent failures?
How do you handle failures?
I will let you answer the questions for yourself as me telling you will not
help. Keep in mind that the manifold is a component in a larger system that
sustains life some distance from air. All I can tell you is that I very
quickly concluded that it was best to fully open the isolator. Anything
else was an attempt to deal with some imagined problem, and it caused more
problems than it solved. If you persue the "partially open" logic far
enough you will actually conclude that independant doubles are the best
solution. If you reach that conclusion, go back to the beginning because
you made a mistake somewhere.
Just fanning the fire
David Pearson
Ottawa, Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lundgren [mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*]
Sent: April 14, 2001 8:00 AM
To: adrian scothern; techdiver-aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Adrian,
Im not trying to pick a fight with you. I belive you need some advice on
the way thou. Some informatinon below your coments...
>i dive with the ISO open just enough for the cylinders to equalise, in
the event of a free flow , i don't waste time having to turn the ISO off
from fully on , as with cold >hands or thick dry gloves ,this would make
life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for myself?????),.
The fastes and most apropiate way of handeling a free flow is always to
shut down the valve with the frozen or mailfunctioning regulator and switch
to back up. In other words you do not need or should not close the ISO in
the event of a free flow. To spend time on closing the ISO first and then
the adecvate valve would only make up for more wasted gas. One could
offcorse close both valves at the same time but it would be an overkill.
The only senario there you have to shut down the ISO would be a broken
burst disk (american valves) or a abused manifold (o-rings). A fully opened
ISO valve is closed in seconds if you have trained it and have the right
equipment and configuration. Even with gloves or what ever.
>As for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers taking
there first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD or TDI,
>, as shut downs are apart of syllabus, my instructor & people i have
listened to use this method, and as far as i a aware As the said
organisations are wide spread >around Europe , i can only conclude that they
are also shown this method.
I understand that you do what you have been trained to do, no mistery
there. What I do know is that this fall down to personal preferense again
since none of your mentioned organications have standards that suggest that
the ISO should be this or that.
take care,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Lundgren
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris
Tibble
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Adrian,
Not likely, the only reason to do it like you suggest is inexperience
or lack of understanding. Follow the tread and Im shure you understand why
you are wrong and how you would benefit from doing it right.It would be a
shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be that ignorant and I find it
pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic figures on your own to prove
your point, it will not work.
regards,
Richard Lundgren
----- Original Message -----
From: adrian scothern
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris
Tibble
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Well, i've been diving with the ISO two half turns , since having
a twin set!, and proberley 3/4 OF Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way,
I'm Sorry that i've No Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD
-- Original Message -----
From: George Irvine
To: adrian scothern ; Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
And what bullshit paranoia do you attribute the "two half turns
" to? This is the kind of mindless crap that gets people killed. I will say
right here and now that you can come up with no reason to do something that
stupid that makes any sense what so ever. Give it a try.
----- Original Message -----
From: adrian scothern
To: Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
I have the ISO two half turn's on, and I think the key is to ,
Know your kit inside out, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over 30
hours ,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and Do know my
current config Insideout , the wife finds this highly amusing if/when she
walks in . same goe's for inwater training dives .
ady
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Tibble
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Isolating Manifold Question
Just a quickie. I'm just about to buy my first twinset with
a manifold. I've dived twins before, independents because of fiscal reasons
(I'm a poor student!) What I need to know is this. Some of the people I have
talked to who dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a turn, whilst
others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see advantages and
disadvantages to both:
All the way
Adv: No risk of turning wrong way
Disadv: May get stuck if turned on all way
Have to turn it 3 turns (or whatever)
Part way
Adv: V fast way of isolating
Disadv: Can turn it the wrong way
Not having it open all the way may limit
equalisation across the manifold.
Now any or all of this may be unmitigated rubbish, but it's
just what I was thinking about last night.
Any comments/suggestions as to how best to do it?
As this is my first post, go easy on me - I'm still
learning!
Many thanks,
Chris
--
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to
laugh at that man.
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D00324114-14042001>Folks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D00324114-14042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>I have=20
been away from the list for a couple of years. I assume this is =
still the=20
same thread that was under way when I left. At the time there were =
so many=20
opinions that I decided I could not trust any of them. I studied =
my=20
manifold and asked certain fundamental questions</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D00324114-14042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>Why is=20
the manifold there?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D00324114-14042001>Why does it have an isolator=20
valve?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>How do=20
I know the whole system is working?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>What=20
are the different ways this system could fail?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>How do=20
you prevent failures?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>How do=20
you handle failures?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>I will=20
let you answer the questions for yourself as me telling you will not=20
help. <FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>=20
Keep in mind that the manifold is a component in a larger system that =
sustains=20
life some distance from air. </SPAN></FONT>All I can tell you is =
that I=20
very quickly concluded that it was best to fully open the =
isolator. =20
Anything else was an attempt to deal with some imagined problem, and it =
caused=20
more problems than it solved. If you persue the "partially open" =
logic far=20
enough you will actually conclude that independant doubles are the best=20
solution. If you reach that conclusion, go back to the beginning =
because=20
you made a mistake somewhere.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D00324114-14042001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>Just=20
fanning the fire</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>David=20
Pearson</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D00324114-14042001>Ottawa,=20
Canada</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard
Lundgren=20
[mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> April 14, 2001 =
8:00=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> adrian scothern; =
techdiver-aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: Isolating Manifold Question<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im not trying to pick a fight with =
you. I belive=20
you need some advice on the way thou. Some informatinon below your=20
coments...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>i dive with the ISO open just =
enough for=20
the cylinders to equalise, in the event of a free flow , i don't =
waste time=20
having to turn the ISO off from fully on , as with cold >hands or =
thick=20
dry gloves ,this would make life difficult!( Why should i make it =
harder for=20
myself?????),.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The fastes and most apropiate way =
of handeling=20
a free flow is always to shut down the valve with the frozen or=20
mailfunctioning regulator and switch to back up. In other words you =
do not=20
need or should not close the ISO in the event of a free flow. =
To spend=20
time on closing the ISO first and then the adecvate valve would only =
make up=20
for more wasted gas. One could offcorse close both valves at the =
same time=20
but it would be an overkill.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only senario there you have =
to shut=20
down the ISO would be a broken burst disk (american valves) or=20
a abused manifold (o-rings). A fully opened ISO valve is closed =
in=20
seconds if you have trained it and have the right equipment and=20
configuration. Even with gloves or what ever.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>As for the 3/4 of European =
divers using=20
this method, divers taking there first steps into tech training , do =
so with=20
IANTD or TDI,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>, as shut downs are apart of =
syllabus, my=20
instructor & people i have listened to use this method, =
and as far=20
as i a aware As the said organisations are wide spread =
>around=20
Europe , i can only conclude that they are also shown this=20
method.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I understand that you do what you=20
have been trained to do, no mistery there. What I do know is =
that this=20
fall down to personal preferense again since none of your mentioned=20
organications have standards that suggest that the ISO should be =
this or=20
that. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>take care,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*"=20
title=3Drikard.lundgren@sw*.se*>Richard Lundgren</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" =
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George=20
Irvine</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 14,
=
2001 9:49=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not likely, the only reason to do =
it like you=20
suggest is inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread =
and Im=20
shure you understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit =
from=20
doing it right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys =
would be=20
that ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up =
statistic=20
figures on your own to prove your point, it will not =
work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard Lundgren</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" =
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George=20
Irvine</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13,
=
2001 12:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, i've been =
diving with the=20
ISO two half turns , since having a twin set!, =
and proberley 3/4=20
OF Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry =
that i've=20
No Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD =
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*" =
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>George=20
Irvine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April
=
13, 2001=20
11:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
Isolating Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>And what bullshit paranoia do you =
attribute the=20
"two half turns " to? This is the kind of mindless =
crap that=20
gets people killed. I will say right here and now that you =
can come=20
up with no reason to do something that stupid that makes any =
sense=20
what so ever. Give it a try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*"=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*>adrian scothern</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
April 12,=20
2001 7:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
Isolating=20
Manifold Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the ISO two =
half turn's=20
on, and I think the key is to , <STRONG>Know your kit =
inside=20
out</STRONG>, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over =
30 hours=20
,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and =
Do know=20
my current config Insideout , the wife =
finds this=20
highly amusing if/when she walks in . same goe's for =
inwater=20
training dives .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ady</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
-----=20
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*"=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*>Chris Tibble</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
=
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday,
=
April 12,=20
2001 6:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> =
Isolating Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a quickie. I'm =
just about to=20
buy my first twinset with a manifold. I've dived twins =
before,=20
independents because of fiscal reasons (I'm a poor =
student!)=20
What I need to know is this. Some of the people I have =
talked to=20
who dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a =
turn, whilst=20
others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see=20
advantages and disadvantages to both:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the =
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =
No risk of turning wrong =
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: =
May get=20
stuck if turned on all way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =20
=
Have to=20
turn it 3 turns (or whatever)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Part
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20
V fast way of isolating</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Disadv: Can turn=20
it the wrong way </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; Not=20
having it open all the way may limit equalisation across =
the=20
manifold.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now any or all of this =
may be=20
unmitigated rubbish, but it's just what I was thinking =
about=20
last night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any =
comments/suggestions as to how=20
best to do it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As this is my first =
post, go easy=20
on me - I'm still learning!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many =
thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It takes a big man to =
cry, but it=20
takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.<BR></DIV>
=
<DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO
CKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></
HTML>
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