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Just my 2 cents worth. I was on a dive in S.C. it was a PADI shop and =
there was a PADI instructor(instroketer)teaching some OW people. This =
one lady very nice was just married to a guy who was a diver they were =
planning to do a late honeymoon in coz. so she thought she would =
superise him and get certified to dive. Well as I later found out she =
was scared to deth of the ocean and the dumb ass instructor told her the =
only way she would get certified was to go on this dive(dive was 110 ft =
remember OW certification here). Well on the way out she heard some =
people talking about seeing some sharks and she got REAL nervous then =
seasick, and couldn't do the dive. When we got back she asked if she =
could do some more inland diving to get better first and the instructor =
said "no if you want to do this we will be going out tomarrow and that =
will be the only way(in the ocean where she's afraid)you'll get =
certified.When I heard that I told him I thought he was an asshole and =
that the lady probably wont ever get certified.He didn't like that, and =
I also told him what I thought about the rest of his operation(didn't =
check cards or ask about experience just Put Another Dollar In and lets =
dive).Guess what the last time I was in SO.CO. I heard he was going to =
teach tec diving, can't wait to see that cluster f__k. PADI what a way =
to die!! =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*=20
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: WARNING - Coffee Alert
Why are we trying to place blame on one person or the other? It's =
both for Gods sake. There are some really great instructors out there, =
connected with different agencies, just like there are bad ones! I =
think the agencies are at fault for not policing their instructors and =
making it harder to get an instructor license and keeping it. They are =
also at fault for not making their materials more in-depth and being =
slow to react to new information. They are also at fault for not having =
tougher standards when teaching someone something that can easily get =
you killed if there is the simplest screw up.
=20
The instructors are also at fault. They have the ability of being =
either good teachers or bad ones. A good teacher knows his/her =
limitations and knows not to cross them. Just about anyone can probably =
teach a resort course in warm clear water at 40 feet on a reef. If this =
is your limitation, don't apply for a deep cold certification and take =
someone in that environment and pretend to know what you are talking =
about. One of my biggest problems is that there is no real connection =
between what the instructor knows or that they keep up their skills for =
that instruction level. How many instructors do you know who can teach =
you wreck specialty when all they do is one or 2 local dives while =
spending the rest of their diving career in the Caribbean looking at =
fish on a reef or swimming around a wreck? =20
=20
We've got plenty of instructors up here in the NE that can teach you =
dry suit diving and give you some cockamamie certification for it when =
all they do is dive in a quarry and make one local boat trip. The rest =
of the time they are taking people to warm water. On the other hand =
there are other instructors that pretty much only dive in their local =
environment. You typically don't see them giving you some tropical fish =
identification certification... Good instructors and bad ones. I think =
what constitutes a bad instructor is attitude (not caring if you =
actually understand something or not) as well as not knowing their =
limitations.
=20
It's both, agencies and instructors.. By no means a complete list!
=20
This thread is starting to get very old!
=20
Art.
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Greenhouse [mailto:b.greenhouse@ut*.ca*]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 12:20 PM
To: haglandg@to*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: WARNING - Coffee Alert
=20
Gary=20
I agree with you on most points except your last one. It is the =
instructor, not the agency. Neither of the two MSDTs you talk about =
were practising what they preach. PADI has no need to make =
understanding basic decompression theory an additional criteria for the =
rating of MSDT. These two guys were diving beyond their training. =
Unless either of them were trained by a tech agency, they were beyond =
what they had been taught (which includes following the Recreational =
Dive Tables). If they had tech training, then it's that agency that's =
to blame (please don't say they were tec-rec).=20
I'm not saying that PADI is perfect. I know a few incredibly =
incompetent instructors myself. That being said, teaching a person to =
dive to 30 feet in the carribean isn't that hard. Students are taught =
that if they enter an environment different than the one they were =
trained in, they should get an orientation dive with a local divemaster =
or instructor. Probably due to attitudes like the ones on this list, =
people think that it's only a money-grab. While I agree that it is a bit =
of a money grab, there is also some sense in the madness. You can't =
expect every instructor to have dove in every conceivable set of =
circumstances. I dive and teach in cold water with limited visibility =
relative to more tropical locales. However, I don't have a lot of =
experience in currents, and so I would never try and teach a student how =
to drift dive. By recommending that students get oriented in new =
environments, you can ensure that they get taught by people who have =
experience in that area. Anyhow, most students will probably never =
venture too far from the conditions in which they were trained. PADI =
also advocates that students take a tuneup if they haven't been diving =
for a while.=20
There are many bad things about PADI, not the least of which is =
(what I perceive as) the lax standards for IDC admission. However, I =
think that a good instructor from PADI is as good as an instructor from =
any other RSTC training program. A bad instructor from PADI is as bad =
as any other instructor. If someone has hard stats that more PADI =
divers are getting injured than divers from other training agencies, I =
think PADI would be very interested to hear it, as would I.=20
I'm sure I'll get some flames on this, but I would be interested =
in rational discussion. I think that while there are a lot of bad areas =
within PADI, they are no worse than any other agency on the market (GUE =
does seem to be changing things though...).=20
All that being said, don't get me started on Tec-Rec.=20
Ben=20
Gary Hagland wrote:=20
Adam,Have been watching your posts and understand your feelings about =
PADI. I was certified as an instructor by that agency in 1978 when =
there was an entirely different ethos to their approach to dive =
training. We took great pride in creating competent divers. Those =
instructors who took short cuts, rushed classes, and certified marginal =
students were looked upon as scum. Unfortunately, because of their =
business based system, they are now the norm. More unfortunately, most =
of those same individuals think they're doing a terrific job because =
they know no better. They're encapsulated in PADI propaganda. However, =
most of them one day wake up and discover that their efforts outpace the =
rewards. The return on investment sucks. Economically, it doesn't make =
sense to be a dive instructor, especially a incompetent one. They quit. =
That's a blessing for the dive community, but their system seems to be =
able to churn out more of the same. I know some good PADI Instructors, =
but the active ones of my acquaintance have diminished to three. Since =
the beginning of the year here on Okinawa, there have been two confirmed =
cases of DCS among the American military community. Both were PADI =
Master Scuba Diver Trainers. One went for a five mile run after =
completing a dive to 190 FSW. The other spent 30 minutes trying to =
dislodge a porthole from a U.S. ship sunk during the battle here at 146 =
FSW, and which should probably be considered a war grave since 60 =
sailors are still aboard, and ran out of air before he could make his =
first stop at 40 feet. After 45 minutes he went back to the wreck. =
During his ascent, he began to feel pain between his 20 and 10 foot =
stops. Perhaps if PADI made understanding basic decompression theory an =
additional criteria for the rating of MSDT, we would have fewer =
accidents and better training by that agency's instructors. The mantra =
that it's the instructor not the agency is pass=E9.Gary HaglandOkinawa, =
Japan=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Adam [mailto:deepwrecks@ya*.co*]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:52 AM=20
To: William Anzueto=20
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Subject: Re: WARNING - Coffee Alert=20
=20
When PADI started they where non profit organization. I am not against =
PADI making money. I stand against PADI's bullshit to lower the =
standards to produce instructors and sell impressive but worthless =
titles. They are certifying instructors regardless of their skills and =
teaching ability to gain market share.Because PADI believes more =
instructors produce more divers. More divers mean more money. Do you =
know instructor candidates will be marked down if they fail to promote =
up coming classes. (Basket weaving or perhaps Pumpkin Carving Specialty =
any one) As I said again and again there are great instructors out =
there. The ultimate insult to all good instructors regardless of agency =
who worked hard and care about quality, safety of their students is to =
be put in to the same class as these morons. Because they happened to =
share the same Master Instructor Trainer title. Difference is one earned =
the title and the other bought it. ;-)<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =
=3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />=20
Cheers=20
Adam=20
William Anzueto <willanz@ms*.co*> wrote:=20
Adam,=20
Interesting that you should post this....=20
I wonder what kind of business you are in...do they make money by =
providing a service or material? That's what makes the world go round. =
So yes PADI is in for making money...and now the rest of the agencies =
are cachting up.=20
My training:=20
PADI Instructor.=20
GUE Cave 1 and doing Cave 2 next month.=20
My opinion on PADI....agency just makes the outline....the instructor =
makes a big difference.=20
I train my courses since GUE Cave 1 very differently.=20
Dive soon,=20
William=20
"Cave Country , FL"=20
=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just my 2 cents worth. I was on a dive =
in S.C. it=20
was a PADI shop and there was a PADI instructor(instroketer)teaching =
some OW=20
people. This one lady very nice was just married to a guy who was a =
diver they=20
were planning to do a late honeymoon in coz. so she thought she would =
superise=20
him and get certified to dive. Well as I later found out she =
was=20
scared to deth of the ocean and the dumb ass instructor told her the =
only way=20
she would get certified was to go on this dive(dive was 110 ft remember =
OW=20
certification here). Well on the way out she heard some people talking =
about=20
seeing some sharks and she got REAL nervous then seasick, and couldn't =
do the=20
dive. When we got back she asked if she could do some more inland diving =
to get=20
better first and the instructor said "no if you want to do this we =
will be=20
going out tomarrow and that will be the only way(in the ocean where =
she's=20
afraid)you'll get certified.When I heard that I told him I thought he =
was an=20
asshole and that the lady probably wont ever get certified.He didn't =
like that,=20
and I also told him what I thought about the rest of his =
operation(didn't check=20
cards or ask about experience just Put Another Dollar In and lets =
dive).Guess=20
what the last time I was in SO.CO. I heard he was going to teach =
tec=20
diving, can't wait to see that cluster f__k. PADI what a way to =
die!!=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*"=20
title=3DArt.Paltz@R2*.CO*>Art.Paltz@R2K.COM</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 15,
2001 =
2:57=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: WARNING - Coffee
=
Alert</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Why=20
are we trying to place blame on one person or the other?<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s both for Gods =
sake.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There are some really great=20
instructors out there, connected with different agencies, just like =
there are=20
bad ones!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think the =
agencies=20
are at fault for not policing their instructors and making it harder =
to get an=20
instructor license and keeping it.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>They are also at fault for not making their materials more =
in-depth and=20
being slow to react to new information.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>They are also at fault for not having tougher standards when =
teaching=20
someone something that can easily get you killed if there is the =
simplest=20
screw up.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">The=20
instructors are also at fault.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>They have the ability of being either good teachers or bad =
ones.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A good teacher knows his/her =
limitations and knows not to cross them.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>Just about anyone can probably teach a resort course in warm =
clear=20
water at 40 feet on a reef.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>If=20
this is your limitation, don’t apply for a deep cold =
certification and take=20
someone in that environment and pretend to know what you are talking=20
about.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One of my =
biggest problems=20
is that there is no real connection between what the instructor knows =
or that=20
they keep up their skills for that instruction level.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>How many instructors do you =
know who=20
can teach you wreck specialty when all they do is one or 2 local dives =
while=20
spending the rest of their diving career in the Caribbean looking at =
fish on a=20
reef or swimming around a wreck?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">We’ve=20
got plenty of instructors up here in the NE that can teach you dry =
suit diving=20
and give you some cockamamie certification for it when all they do is =
dive in=20
a quarry and make one local boat trip.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>The rest of the time they are taking people to warm water.<SPAN =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On the other hand there are =
other=20
instructors that pretty much only dive in their local =
environment.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You typically don’t =
see them giving=20
you some tropical fish identification certification…..<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Good instructors and bad =
ones.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I think what constitutes a =
bad=20
instructor is attitude (not caring if you actually understand =
something or=20
not) as well as not knowing their=20
limitations.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">It’s=20
both, agencies and instructors….<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>By no means a complete =
list!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">This=20
thread is starting to get very =
old!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Art.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Ben=20
Greenhouse [mailto:b.greenhouse@ut*.ca*]<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 15, 2001 =
12:20=20
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
haglandg@to*.co*<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> =
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: WARNING - Coffee=20
Alert</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><
/P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Gary=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"> I agree=20
with you on most points except your last one. It is the =
instructor, not=20
the agency. Neither of the two MSDTs you talk about were =
practising what=20
they preach. PADI has no need to make understanding basic =
decompression=20
theory an additional criteria for the rating of MSDT. These two =
guys=20
were diving beyond their training. Unless either of them were =
trained by=20
a tech agency, they were beyond what they had been taught (which =
includes=20
following the Recreational Dive Tables). If they had tech =
training, then=20
it's that agency that's to blame (please don't say they were tec-rec). =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"> I'm not=20
saying that PADI is perfect. I know a few incredibly incompetent =
instructors myself. That being said, teaching a person to dive =
to 30=20
feet in the carribean isn't that hard. Students are taught that =
if they=20
enter an environment different than the one they were trained in, they =
should=20
get an orientation dive with a local divemaster or instructor. =
Probably=20
due to attitudes like the ones on this list, people think that it's =
only a=20
money-grab. While I agree that it is a bit of a money grab, there is =
also some=20
sense in the madness. You can't expect every instructor to have =
dove in=20
every conceivable set of circumstances. I dive and teach in cold =
water=20
with limited visibility relative to more tropical locales. =
However, I=20
don't have a lot of experience in currents, and so I would never try =
and teach=20
a student how to drift dive. By recommending that students get =
oriented=20
in new environments, you can ensure that they get taught by people who =
have=20
experience in that area. Anyhow, most students will probably =
never=20
venture too far from the conditions in which they were trained. =
PADI=20
also advocates that students take a tuneup if they haven't been diving =
for a=20
while. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"> There=20
are many bad things about PADI, not the least of which is (what I =
perceive as)=20
the lax standards for IDC admission. However, I think that a =
good=20
instructor from PADI is as good as an instructor from any other RSTC =
training=20
program. A bad instructor from PADI is as bad as any other=20
instructor. If someone has hard stats that more PADI divers are =
getting=20
injured than divers from other training agencies, I think PADI would =
be very=20
interested to hear it, as would I. </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"> I'm sure=20
I'll get some flames on this, but I would be interested in rational=20
discussion. I think that while there are a lot of bad areas =
within PADI,=20
they are no worse than any other agency on the market (GUE does seem =
to be=20
changing things though...). </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"> All that=20
being said, don't get me started on Tec-Rec. </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Ben =
</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Gary Hagland =
wrote:=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblue=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Adam,Have =
been=20
watching your posts and understand your feelings about PADI. I =
was=20
certified as an instructor by that agency in 1978 when there was an =
entirely=20
different ethos to their approach to dive training. We took =
great pride=20
in creating competent divers. Those instructors who took short =
cuts,=20
rushed classes, and certified marginal students were looked upon as=20
scum. Unfortunately, because of their business based system, =
they are=20
now the norm. More unfortunately, most of those same individuals =
think=20
they're doing a terrific job because they know no better. =
They're=20
encapsulated in PADI propaganda. However, most of them one day =
wake up=20
and discover that their efforts outpace the rewards. The return =
on=20
investment sucks. Economically, it doesn't make sense to be a =
dive=20
instructor, especially a incompetent one. They quit. =
That's a=20
blessing for the dive community, but their system seems to be able to =
churn=20
out more of the same. I know some good PADI Instructors, but the =
active=20
ones of my acquaintance have diminished to three. Since the =
beginning of=20
the year here on Okinawa, there have been two confirmed cases of DCS =
among the=20
American military community. Both were PADI Master Scuba Diver=20
Trainers. One went for a five mile run after completing a dive =
to 190=20
FSW. The other spent 30 minutes trying to dislodge a porthole =
from a=20
U.S. ship sunk during the battle here at 146 FSW, and which should =
probably be=20
considered a war grave since 60 sailors are still aboard, and ran out =
of air=20
before he could make his first stop at 40 feet. After 45 minutes =
he went=20
back to the wreck. During his ascent, he began to feel pain =
between his=20
20 and 10 foot stops. Perhaps if PADI made understanding basic=20
decompression theory an additional criteria for the rating of MSDT, we =
would=20
have fewer accidents and better training by that agency's=20
instructors. The mantra that it's the instructor not the agency =
is=20
pass=E9.Gary HaglandOkinawa, Japan</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-----Original=20
Message-----</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN
style=3D"COLOR: =
black">=20
<BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Adam [<A =
=
href=3D"mailto:deepwrecks@ya*.co*">mailto:deepwrecks@yahoo.com</A>]</SP=
AN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> =
Thursday, March=20
15, 2001 1:52 AM</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN =
style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
<BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> William=20
Anzueto</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR:
black"> =
<BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><B><FONT
color=3Dblack =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: =
WARNING -=20
Coffee Alert</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN
style=3D"COLOR: =
black">=20
<BR> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">When PADI=20
started they where non profit organization. I am not against PADI =
making=20
money. I stand against PADI's bullshit to lower the standards to =
produce=20
instructors and sell impressive but worthless titles. They are =
certifying=20
instructors regardless of their skills and teaching ability to gain =
market=20
share.Because PADI believes more instructors produce more divers. More =
divers=20
mean more money. Do you know instructor candidates will be marked down =
if they=20
fail to promote up coming classes. (Basket weaving or perhaps Pumpkin =
Carving=20
Specialty any one) As I said again and again there are great =
instructors out=20
there. The ultimate insult to all good instructors regardless of =
agency who=20
worked hard and care about quality, safety of their students is to be =
put in=20
to the same class as these morons. Because they happened to share the =
same=20
Master Instructor Trainer title. Difference is one earned the title =
and the=20
other bought it. ;-)<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D "<A=20
=
href=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office">urn:schemas-microsoft-co=
m:office:office</A>"=20
/><U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN =
style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: =
Arial">Cheers<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: =
Arial">Adam<U1:P></U1:P></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in"><B><I><FONT =
color=3Dblack=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">William=20
Anzueto <willanz@ms*.co*></SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"> wrote: <BR>Adam, </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in"><FONT color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Interesting that you should =
post=20
this.... <BR>I wonder what kind of business you are in...do they make =
money by=20
providing a service or material? That's what makes the world go round. =
So yes=20
PADI is in for making money...and now the rest of the agencies are =
cachting=20
up. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in"><FONT color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">My=20
training: <BR>PADI Instructor. <BR>GUE Cave 1 and doing Cave 2 next =
month.=20
<BR>My opinion on PADI....agency just makes the outline....the =
instructor=20
makes a big difference. <BR>I train my courses since GUE Cave 1 very=20
differently. <BR>Dive soon, <BR>William <BR>"Cave Country , FL" =
<BR> =20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV align=3Dcenter class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; TEXT-ALIGN: center; =
mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D1 width=3D"100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><FONT=20
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Do You=20
Yahoo!?</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN
style=3D"COLOR: =
black"> <BR><A=20
href=3D"http://auctions.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Auctions</A> - Buy the =
things you want=20
at great prices!</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>--=20
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to =
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send=20
subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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