JT, as usual it is and was all personal crap from you who has no basis to
argue any aspects of diving with me, and the usual resentful attacks when
you get caught doing really stupid things ( by your own descriptions ) and
then realize that not only do you not know what you are talking about or
doing, you just put it in writing. Sure that pisses you off, but try taking
the cotton out of your ears and putting it in your mouth for a while. You
are nowhere near where you think you are, and you are going to get somebody
killed. You are sorely lacking in the details, the basics, and the concepts.

I am sick of your paranoid, rumor monger, misinformed insinuations ,your
clusterfuck dive stories, and your mutilation, misuse, and bastardization of
our system due to the fact that you just do not get it or any part of it and
have too much hubris to ask those who know. When you put out one of these, I
am going to have something to say about it every time, so you can skip the
personal crap with me and everyone else, and try to defend your guesswork
against what I am saying about it. You can not do it, because you are wrong,
and the best way to be sure you are wrong is that the strokes will all
privately pat you on the back, and none of them will dare try to defend your
actions publicly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:16 PM
To: Jim Cobb; vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL


At 04:51 PM 3/14/01 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote: I don't agree
>with JT's posts, I think he's better than that,

I am better than that, everything I said was in private and was not on the
lists, you as were a few others were cc on it. I lowered myself to his
standards, but never once did I say anything about his girlfriend, it was
all about him. I exposed Kevin in those same emails for what he was and he
ask to be removed. Jim, you were witness to those emails, am I telling the
truth.

>but George in your battles
>you have gone personal with quite a few people now and then, so you really
>shouldn't be belly-aching about JT's posts. Sticks and stones and all that.
>
>I am pissed at you comparing us to Stone... Stone was a huge bullshit
>artist, he did a giant scam bilking millions out of gullible idiots,
>screwing over you and lying to all divers. This is not an appropriate
>comparison to us guys who don't want anything from anybody but to go out
and
>do some fun diving.
>
>I'm not trying to make peace between you and JT, it does not matter to me
>whether you guys get along or not. I just want you to know that most of us
>are using argon on our belts, using the long hose, spreading the word
>because yours and JJ's system works. And I myself appreciate your efforts
>over the years greatly. And I hope JJ makes a million on his business, the
>scuba industry could use a company with some integrity for a change.
>
>    Jim
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
> > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> > Date: 14 Mar 2001 07:06:58 -0500
> > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Kevin Connell
<kevin@co*.ne*>,
> > dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*
> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >
> > Jim, I've done enough of this in all respects to know how to pull it off
> > easily. I have spent my life on and in the water. Nobody wants to listen
to
> > that. I have no time to argue.
> > You guys keep beating your heads against the wall - that is easier than
> > simply looking at somebody who does it flawlessly every time, now isn't
it?
> >
> > What you guys are doing is no different than when Bill Stone tried to do
> > Wakulla. He took 3 months to get to where I sent Ted Cole , Chris
> Werner and
> > John Rose with my scooters after drawing them a map and telling them how
to
> > do it and where to drop. They did it and JJ and I passed them in the
> cave on
> > the way to 19 grand.
> >
> > 3 months of diving daily and Stone could not get there. I see you guys
> doing
> > exactly the same thing, and like Stone, you all think you know better
than
> > the guy who has done it over and over and never fucked up and always
gets
> > the job done and never has any excuses, and then when I make a comment,
I
> > have to listen to personal bullshit out of JT about my girlfriend.
> >
> > You guys are done with me. The personal bullshit had finished that. Try
JJ.
> > My bet is he is done , too. There are those who want to learn, and
> those who
> > want to prove something. I have no time for the latter. There are too
many
> > people out there who are smart enough to carry the ball, and that is
> where I
> > am going to focus any help that I am willing to give. The know it alls
can
> > keep knowing it all and putting out the bullshit and excuses.
> >
> > When I read that shit about the argon bottles coming out of the velcro
and
> > the lift bags shot from 275 feet, I finally realized that you guys have
not
> > listened to anything, not learned anything, and are only posing in a bad
> > attempt to mimic part of what you "think" we are doing with zero
> > understanding of any of the logic.
> >
> > We do not use those liftbags for that , and we do not use tank mounted
> argon
> > to wreck dive.
> > We do not do ANYTHING you guys are currently doing. I found your
operation
> > up there ill thought out and extremely dangerous, and JT is the
ringleader.
> > I want no association with any of that kind of activity.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:29 PM
> > To: Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*; VB Tech
> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >
> >
> > Yes, the resentment factor is there. George, you have a track record
> you are
> > proud of and who can blame you. And the fact is that JT has pulled off
some
> > pretty decent dives himself, no matter how much you may disapprove of
his
> > technique. Fact is he runs a tight ship and will not let people dive
with
> > him who are not up to his standards, which, believe it or not, are very
> > high. I would not have qualified, nor would I have asked as I know what
his
> > requirements are. As a matter of fact I think Rick Atkins is the only
> person
> > with whom he will do this deep stuff at this time.
> >
> > It's not every day that attempts are made to identify a wreck at near
500'
> > in the gulf stream, certainly more could be said about the attempt than
the
> > criticism that was the core of your comments. Sure he might have found
it
> > with a grouper ball and Cuban reel, but then maybe one of 100 other
factors
> > could have intervened as well. Some people have to travel their own
> road and
> > make their own discoveries. Certainly you learned untold amounts of
stuff
> > the hard way. And if they survive certainly some level of
> congratulations is
> > in order.
> >
> > And if you don't survive the attempt, here is an very interesting quote
by
> > Homer Hickam in Chowdhury's book The Last Dive-
> >
> > "The diving community, for all its references to the gentle
> contemplation of
> > the beauty of the undersea world, is actually a very harsh group. From
all
> > those who dare to enter it, we demand near perfection in skill and form,
> > including the method and style of our dying. To die while diving is one
> > thing, but to die poorly is to wipe clean all the tributes and laurels
we
> > might have gathered during our diving careers. All divers know this, and
so
> > it is somewhere in our minds on every dive--the need, if it comes to
that,
> > to die cleanly and bravely, if not wisely. We are a band of brothers and
> > sisters who admire the lost cave diver (or wreck diver) who stubbornly
> > clings to life to the end, breathing down his tank to the nubs, but we
> > disdain the diver who panics and dies with a tank still half-filled with
> > gas. Both divers are just as dead, just as foolish, but one is allowed
to
> > ascend into our version of Valhalla while the other is sent to diving
> > Purgatory for all eternity."
> >
> > You may be 10,000 ft back and a cave roof collapses on you head. No
amount
> > of DIR will save you from that. But you would damn sure make it
> Valhalla and
> > I think JT would as well. But I doubt it will come to that, both you
guys
> > are too damn good and too damn lucky.
> >
> > Jim
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >
> >> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >> Date: 13 Mar 2001 19:39:50 -0500
> >> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, vbtech@ci*.co*, Kevin
> > Connell
> >> <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>
> >> Jim, the resentment factor is always going to make it impossible for
those
> >> guys to learn from me any more than Tom Mouth could learn from me. That
is
> >> your guys problem, not mine. You guys have not even scratched the
surface
> > of
> >> what I know that makes me and the WKPP tick on this whole subject, and
> > while
> >> you personally have no problem learning from me, your buddies can not
do
> > it.
> >> Their loss , not mine. I know, they are guessing. Real simple.
> >>
> >> What it boils down to is that I can say a few things here and there,
and
> >> most people are smart enough to get it, but when it comes to the real
> > deal,
> >> if I want to rock, I grab a few WKPP guys and DIR with no bullshit. The
> > only
> >> way to go. I do not fuck with anyone who does not get the joke.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:25 AM
> >> To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*;
> >> captjt@mi*.co*
> >> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> >>
> >>
> >> George-
> >>
> >> While I have read plenty of bullshit posts on this list about
improbable
> >> profiles I must say that I have never read JT or anybody else
associated
> >> with VBtech tell anything but the truth on actual bottom times and deco
> >> schedules.
> >>
> >> On the contrary we listen very closely to your continuing research on
> >> extreme diving survival strategies and JT and his dive partners have
done
> >> much over the years to apply deep stops, Trimix deco gases and other
> >> techniques you, JJ and the WKPP have pioneered and made available to
> > fellow
> >> techdivers.
> >>
> >> And you yourself have said that the Ocean is no place for WKPP style
> > bottom
> >> times and we agree completely, there are too many variables associated
> > with
> >> ocean diving to screw around with hours-long deco, particularly up here
in
> >> the north. Heroic bottom times are not a part of our tech diving and
never
> >> will be. I do agree with you that a deep scooter should be a
prerequisite
> >> for this type of high current diving, if you don't have one it appears
> > that
> >> it's pretty much a crapshoot on getting to your target.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>
> >>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>> Date: 6 Mar 2001 05:47:36 -0500
> >>> To: Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
> >>> vbtech@ci*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>> Kev, these guys bounce to a wreck and spend two minutes and call it
30,
> >> and
> >>> then deco for a week. That is the one or two they actually hit. The
rest
> >> are
> >>> sand drift dives in the Gulf Stream that take all day.
> >>>
> >>> When we do it we get my brother's or fathers boat or charter other
> > persons
> >>> who have fast boats with excellent fishing sounders that will mark
> >> anything,
> >>> and sometimes we run a second boat as well. We mark them with the
Cuban
> >> hand
> >>> reel and grouper ball with the freediving float and then scooter from
up
> >>> current down to the line and then along the line below the current to
the
> >>> wreck, and when we are done, we cut the grouper ball off and reel up
the
> >>> float line and deco out on the drift. I have a stockpile of 40 pound
iron
> >>> "balls" for this. They hit every time with the Cuban reel and the tuna
> >> line
> >>> . For longer projects, we charter a boat for the time it takes to get
it
> >>> done, like the Bahamian stuff that Carmichael was doing. That was all
> >>> massive depth and no bullshit or misses - ever.
> >>>
> >>> For the regular weenie wrecks we mark them with a hook and line and
> >> scooter
> >>> in, secure the line, dive, then pull the hook and drift with the
float.
> >>>
> >>> Scooters and rebreathers for the crazy stuff. Double 80's for the
weenie
> >>> wrecks.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:59 PM
> >>> To: dwiden@ho*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You guys sure get your panties in a wad easy.
> >>>
> >>> The point is this:  You can kill yourself doing anything.   Using the
> >>> argument "people die on rebreathers" is not a reason not to dive one
in
> >>> general.   What's next?  Don't use a proper scooter because they might
> >>> actually allow you to get something done on a dive and you only can
find
> >>> one wreck a year so you might get bored?
> >>>
> >>> At 08:00 PM 3/5/2001 -0500, David B. Widen wrote:
> >>>> Kevin
> >>>>
> >>>> So what is the purpose of your post. If you have nothing reasonable
> > (good
> >>> or
> >>>> bad) to say about an activity then do not waste the bandwidth.
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*]On
> >>>> Behalf Of Kevin Connell
> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:08 PM
> >>>> To: trey@ne*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> JT, Do you drive a car? Ride in an airplane?  I'm not even sure you
can
> >>>> walk, because legs have been known to kill people.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> >> VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >>> com >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> --
> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> > VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >> com >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> >
> >
> > << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
VBTech-request@ci*.=
> > com >>

"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]