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If y'all gotta keep this up, could you at least change the subject to DECAF-coffee alert? Everybody has made up their mind and I'm getting REAL sleepy. --- Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> wrote: > Ian, I agree with most of what you say, and I agree > that you *can* > turn out good students under the PADI system. But > look, it's a > simple fact, PADI is the governing body watching > over the > instructors. The fact that there is so much > substandard instruction > *must* be laid at PADI's feet, because there is no > one else. Blaming > the individual instructors is pointless, as long as > PADI doesn't > change who can teach, they will remain the same. It > must come from > PADI if we are to see a change. > > Ian Puleston wrote: > ~ > >But the party line isn't "certify all that pay". > The PADI course standards > >clearly state that a student diver must "master" > every skill before going on > >to the next. The skills taught, if mastered by the > student, should be > >sufficient to bring the student to a level where > he/she can safely do easy > >dives and start to gain the experience to move on > up. > > > >The question is can a student master those skills > in the time frame of a > >typical course (usually 4 weeks or 2 weekends). My > observations have been > >that some can, some can't. If the instructor > certifies those that cannot > >then it is he that is at fault. Many instructors > push out sub-standard > >divers because doing it properly would mean > bringing those students back for > >further training, which would cost them (the > instructor) time and money. > > > >Then you have the question of what level of mastery > is required. A student > >who wants to go and dive warm water with a dive > guide while on vacation > >probably doesn't need to master the skills so well > as one who is going to > >dive unsupervised in a less-ideal environment. > That's a judgment call for > >the instructor, and again, a good instructor should > be prepared to tell a > >student that they need to come back for further > training where he thinks its > >needed. > > > >We all know that PADI's goal is to make money, and > that they want to turn > >out as many divers as possible to make as much > money as possible - PADI > >themselves admit to that. If they are at fault > here, which they probably > >are, it is in not enforcing the standards that they > have published. But it > >is primarily the instructors who are not meeting > those standards who are at > >fault. > > > >A good instructor can turn out good divers using > the PADI system. I know > >some very good cold water divers who came through > that system. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Paul Braunbehrens > [mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*] > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:37 PM > >> To: Todd Sieber; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> Subject: Re: WARNING - Coffee Alert > >> > >> > >> Todd, as long as the party line is "certify all > that pay", the > >> instructor is powerless. There needs to be some > kind of line drawn, > >> and if you can't cross that line you don't get > certified. The > >> agencies have been loosening the requirements, > if anything. It's > >> true that you can have good and bad instructors > in any system, but a > >> good system is one that is able to adhere to a > minimum standard. In > >> my experience, PADI's minimum is not acceptable > for diving around > >> here (Monterey). Then again, maybe it's fine > for warm water no > >> stress diving, I wouldn't know. > >> > >> Todd Sieber wrote: > >> ~ > >> >Paul, > >> > > >> >Look I'm on your side on the issue of some > people shouldn't get certified > >> -- > >> Paul B. > >> -- > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Paul B. > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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