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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:02:29 -0500
From: Wendell Grogan <wgrogan@dc*.ne*>
To: v3@ha*.co*.au*
CC: "Aldo P. Solari [APS]" <aldo.solari@ho*.se*>,
     "techdiver@aquanaut.com"
Subject: Re: sleep on long decos (?)
Ok, to everyone who punched holes in my blanket statement that this
would be impossible, you're right....sort of.
Technically, it would be possible to use subdermal (needles in the
scalp) electrodes, then use a dry hood and feed the wires (23-26
altogether) into  the recorder inside a dry suit.  If there is someone
who wants to risk their $20,000 US portable EEG system on this
experiment, I'll do it.  The risk is that a small leak (at depth) of
salt water into the equipment would kill the electronics package almost
immediately.  Those of you who have looked into designing the sensor
packages for CCR's will know how easy it is for this to happen at depth.
The "underwater in a chamber" idea has some merit, but if you think
about it, can it ever really reproduce the experience of hanging on a
deco line in the open ocean?  As Chris pointed out, some people can
sleep through the house next door burning down, whereas others will wake
up to the dog rolling over in its sleep.  So since the chamber
eliminates the diver having to monitor depth, current, and hostile
critters, its not the same as monitoring someone while doing open water
deco.
Scientific experiments are always compromises between the real life
situation and what you can readily measure. To my mind, this is the
basis of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle- i.e.. measuring something
alters it.
I think the important point is what billyw said- nodding out on deco is
different in some respects than dry land meditation, but it telescopes
the time down.
The whole question of movement (motor activity, locomotion, whatever)
during sleep is interesting.  Its actually my favorite topic.  The short
answer is that it is quite possible and is done all the time.  That's
what sleep walking is all about.  Also, I have fallen asleep assisting
at operations as an intern (lawyer alert- nobody got hurt and the
statute of limitations ran out 20 years ago anyway).  I have known
runners to fall asleep on long runs also.
Since a couple of people mentioned the sensory deprivation experiments,
I'll look that up.
Wendell G

v3@ha*.co*.au* wrote:
> 
> At 02:05  12/03/01 , Wendell Grogan wrote:
> 
> >It would be impossible to study brain physiology during actual dives due
> >to the salt water which would short out the electronic connections.
> 
> Would a dry hood take care of shorting the electrodes, Wendell?
> And open up an interesting new area of study.
> 
> I use transcendental meditation, and meditation glasses topside.
> 
> The nod-out on deco is similar but different. I find it a more
> physically relaxed but more mentally aware state than ordinary
> meditation, but time telescopes down just the same.
> 
> regards
> 
> billyw
> 
> >There have been EEG studies done during dry deco, but this is very
> >clearly not the same situation as being in the water.  There would be
> >nothing to keep a diver from napping during dry deco.  In the water you
> >have to be aware of your buoyancy, current, large toothy predators, etc.
> >Wendell G
> >
> >
> >"Aldo P. Solari [APS]" wrote:
> > >
> > > I  wonder  whether  there  is  any info (papers, grey literature,
> > > anecdotal data, etc.) on the following issue:
> > >
> > > (i)   Divers  getting  into  either:  (a)  hypnothic  state,  (b)
> > > pseudo-asleep or (c) asleep while doing long decos.
> > >
> > > The question is the following: do we (humans) have any capability
> > > (or   pseudo-not-fully-developed-capability)   to   switch   from
> > > sleeping  with  both  brain hemispheres to one at a time (such as
> > > dolphins and other marine mamals do) if we are in the water ?
> > >
> > > Are  there any studies of brain activity during long decos ? This
> > > could  well be answered by electroencephalograms while doing long
> > > decos when divers are very tired.
> > >
> > > What does the WKPP medical doctor say ?
> > >
> > > A very interesting topic, indeed.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > aldo.solari@ho*.se*
> > > www.ccbb.ulpgc.es/fish-ecology/solaris
> > > ___
> > >
> > > --
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