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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:25:38 +0100
From: mat.voss@t-*.de* (Matthias Voss)
Organization: Harry Haller Memorial Fund
To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
CC: "moorea(uol)" <moorea@uo*.co*.br*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: More about breathing Helium thermal loss
Jim,


 
> On a more practical note, when breathing open circuit, as the gas
> expands from the tanks to the outlet of the second stage, it cools.

Some gases, like nitrogen, Oxygen, do. They do it within the limits of
our diving environment. That is, bottle pressure 50 to 200bar, ambient
pressure from 1 to 15 bar, ambient temperature from zero to 30 °C.

Other gases do not. It is rather fizzical, but there are gases which get
warmer when they expand , in our kind of settings. In other settings ,
any gas does. They just show a different behaviour ( cooling or heating)
for different pessure/ temperature settings). I have to look it up how
much helium is concerned here, but is definitely plays a role. 
For the temperature effect, remember that the heat capacity refers to
mass, not to volume. We breathe volume, though, so please adjust the
math to that.

The real issue about heat loss is, we do not have temperature sensors in
our lungs ewhich tell us we should warm up a bit. This may lead to
dangerous lowering of body temperature, apathy, drowsiness.



> This is the same principle that air conditioners work on. 
Well, yes. But these work with gases ( freon) which dangle near their
point of condensation)



This would
> be the primary source of heat loss rather than the composition of the
> gas being breathed.

I feel the prime source is evaporation of water. Anybody care to do the
calc?

> 
> If you have ever tried a rebreather, one thing that immediately
> strikes you is how warm and humid your breathing air is. 
This pertains to mix as well.



Another
> comment is that thermal transfer infers that you are moving heat from
> A to B, certainly not a factor when the heat has nowhere to go, i.e.
> inside your lungs. While in a drysuit the transfer is from your body
> to the water which surrounds you.

In a rebreather , B is the water surrounding the loop.


> 
> As far as gas of various mixtures acting as a heat transport
> mechanism, the expansion cooling effect has far more consequences on
> heat loss on a diver than the composition of your breathing gas to the
> point of rendering it inconsequential.

Could you prove that ?

Matthias
( no physicist, only an engineer)


 
> I am no physicist but this seems to be fairly obvious to me.
> 
>   Jim
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