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Comments scattered within --- Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> wrote: > I think that this is where trimix computers come in. > Even if it's a > good "drop in" gas, I'd still like to track what I'm > really using. Certainly. It isn't rocket science in any case. I haven't worked out _every_ possibility so the He content may have to be backed off a couple of points to stay inside the air tables. A set of rec-tri tables wouldn't seem to be too hard to make up for repetitive diving, although PADI would probably have to actually come up with a new set of surface interval numbers to allow for He instead of the Xerox solution used for the surface intervals on the PADI EAN tables. > Also, because of O2 Tox there would have to be some > kind of an > "orientation class" at the least. If you go down to > 160 on air and > come back up right away you're stupid, but you won't > tox on O2. A > "drop in" gas would need some serious warning if it > has a higher O2 > content. Yeah, the orientation would be: "Remember when I told you to stay shallower than 130? Well this time I mean it." You didn't mention the CNS clock, but since we are on the subject of O2, I haven't figured out a way to run out the clock with 28% O2 without going well into deco stop diving or going below 130. I doubt there is one. > Don Burke wrote: > ~ > >As variation on the same theme, how about 28/35 as > a "drop-in" replacement for air? > > > >It is good to 130 feet under any conditions a rec > diver will see. > > > >The no stop times are longer than for air. > > > >The END at 130 feet is about 80 feet. > > > >The only downside is cost. > > > >Don Burke > >Chesapeake, Virginia > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Jim Cobb > > > >Like I wrote in my post I do not discount proper > training. And I also > >mentioned that you should be proficient in mixing > nitrox before you attempt > >trimix. But I do submit that you could take a rec > diver with 4 dives under > >his belt put a tank of 21/20 on his back and the > only thing the diver would > >notice is a more enjoyable diving experience. > > > >I also submit that a large portion of panic attacks > suffered by new divers > >is in part caused by the unfamiliar sensation of > narcosis. Around here > >beginning divers regularly do their training dives > in 90+ ft of cold, murky > >water, a prime environment for narcosis induced > clusterfucks. On any given > >weekend you can see these new divers doing > panic-stricken free ascents > >popping up like mushrooms all around the dive boat. > > > >Now these new divers should not mix their own > trimix but perhaps trimix > >should be the REAL "safeair" (I still laugh my ass > off when I see > >potentially toxic mixtures of nitrox labeled > "safeair", what genius came up > >with that). > > > >Anyway I see your point that some people need > training and hand-holding more > >than others and should be prepared to pay for it. > > > >Jim > > > >On Friday, October 6, 2000, at 06:46 AM, David B. > Widen wrote: > > > >Jim > > > >You do not represent the typical diver. You do the > research and reading > >before you jump in. Many of these people will just > jump in. The reason for > >training is to ensure that at least some level of > understanding and > >knowledge is in place. You are opening a door for > people to use something > >they may not have the knowledge to use and get > hurt. > > > >You know some of the same people I do. Would you > want to turn some of those > >folk loose on trimix without them getting some > guidance? So where is the > >line between the between those with enough good > sense to doit with out > >training and those that need the training to get > them on the right road and > >doing thing right. > > > >Trimix diving is technical diving. There is more to > technical diving them > >just having the equipment, some O2, and in this > case HE. > > > >David > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] > >Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:55 PM > >To: Paul Braunbehrens > >Cc: Mcinnis, Don; 'RDecker388@ao*.co*'; > scottk@hc*.co*; > >techdiver@aquanaut.com > >Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on > and on > > > >While I am not discounting the need for proper > training, you don't need > >squat for certification to dive with trimix. I have > yet to see a industrial > >gas supplier ask for a c-card for tanks of 02 and > He. And as far as the the > >air tops are concerned it's pretty much a "don't > ask, don't tell" policy at > >the dive shops I've visited. If your diveshop is an > asshole about this, then > >it's time to move on. > > > >Personally I believe that if you are proficient at > mixing nitrox and are > >currently mixing it on a regular basis, there is no > reason one earth why you > >can't shitcan your nitrox wrist computer, get > DecoPlanner for your laptop > >and go trimix diving. It ain't rocket science, > folks. > > > >Jim > > > >On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, at 11:41 AM, Paul > Braunbehrens wrote: > > > >No kidding! I'm doing it right now, adv. nitrox, > stage deco and > >trimix just because I want to use He. It's actually > ironic that you > >have to do a deco class to use trimix. It seems to > me they are > >separate subjects. You won't get a fill without it > though. > > > > > >Mcinnis, Don wrote: > >~ > >>Bob, > >> > >>What's the prerequisite in shingles needed to get > into it? Usually needed > >is > >>the advanced nitrox, decompression techniques, and > then the "entry level > >>trimix" course at least. All this for being able > to dive with a clear head > >>between 70 and 150'. Scott's point all along is > there needs to be a "rec" > >>HOTx course with something like a nitrox C-card > pre-req to open up He to > >>more people without having to go through 4 extra > courses (not to mention > >>about $2000 or more) just to dive HOTx which is by > definition relatively > >>shallow (less logistics) diving. > >-- > >Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* > >http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital > audio on the mac > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > >_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ > > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* > http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital > audio on the mac > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > === message truncated === -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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