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In Australia the cost of He varies from about $US160 per 300 cu ft to close to $US275 if you pay shop prices - 3.5 cents ($A) per litre to 6 cents per litre. So in effect we pay from four times to double what you pay. Then some enterprising Aussie organises He into Truk for about $US485 per bottle. They will certainly be paying for the priviledge - from 6 to 10 times what you pay in the States - now that is keen, something BG and his buddies obviously aren't. Steve Bliim -----Original Message----- From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] Sent: Friday, 29 September 2000 0:34 To: haglandg@to*.co* Cc: Techdiver Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on Here in the states, you will find He prices from $42 to $86 for 330 cu ft. There doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason, except that the gas suppliers will get whatever they can. He is He, even welding gas is never used with a gas source, such as O2 and Acetylene, only to feed a TIG torch, so the risks of contamination of the container are very low. As I understand it, Russia has He reserves far larger than ours. So, I guess you have to deal with Russian gangsters or American. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Hagland <haglandg@to*.co*> To: Scott <scottk@hc*.co*> Cc: Tim O'Leary <Nauitec@ao*.co*>; Douglas Bennett <bennett@ii*.ne*.jp*>; Techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:29 AM Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > Scott, > Have absolutely no doubt that He is safer than air. If circumstances were > different, many of us would gladly dive Trimix below 130 FSW. As it is, we > set what we think are reasonable limits based on what we feel are our > capabilities. Some of us have been diving longer than George, although we > haven't done 19k at 300 FSW. We have opinions based on our experiences and > usually that is what we trust rather than news group invective. As Matthias > says, if it doesn't feel right, we abort. > > >From someone who lives outside the U.S., the problems with He are that its > expensive and the U.S. controls the world's supply. Why did the Germans use > hydrogen in the Hindenburg? Why are the French experimenting with hydrogen > for use in breathing mixes? Although we Americans think of ourselves as the > most wonderful people on the planet, some folks don't want to rely on us. > One storage bottle of He outside the U.S. is $200 or more. That's what it > costs here in Japan and that's what I've been told it costs in France and > other European countries. How many AL80 fills can you get out of one > storage bottle based on an END of 80 FSW? You can do the math based on the > availability of a Haskell or without it. Then apply the financial > considerations. And I'm sorry if you don't think that should be a part of > the equation, but it is. Suggest that you and anyone else who is genuinely > concerned could do a lot more to further the cause of safe diving if you > could convince the suppliers in Texas and, for those of us outside the U.S., > the folks who transship the gas to overseas ports, to lower their prices. > Gary > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:13 AM > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > > > The next thing we have to work on is a way to get the agencies to embrace > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the hands of advanced level recreational > divers. I have been turning people on to HOTx for 6 months, but there are > several problems: > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot for He, which is ludicrous, since > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The typical reasons are "because I have to > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a parallel, one of my buds has an > office supply biz. He has two copiers that cost more than any compressor, > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and .25 a copy from the other. Others > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120 dollars. We can double the money > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around $28 to $32 for most dubs. This rip > off has to be brought to light as well. > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of TDI or IANTD training to be able > to use the gas, which, in reality, is *safer* than air for diving. > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me who will do a fill for people I > know, they are unable to use the gas anywhere else, unless they blend it in > their garage, which many are doing. > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the gas, and he was amazed at how > much better he felt afterwards. Normally, his hands really hurt after diving > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't have that effect. > > I brought this up to the "instructor base" over on rec.scuba, and they > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI and IANTD totally missed the ball > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix course", which is just another way > to separate you from your money. > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just remember the noise made when > Nitrox was suggested for recreational divers. Mountains of dead divers were > predicted... > > Scott > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*> > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > > > > If all of us insist that these guys do things properly , then they will > find > > a way to do that. > > > > The problem is that when idiots like Gilliam get into the mix, we all > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000 miles to dive in a great spot and > > doing it on air. > > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey, where the Seeker idiots proudly > dive > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney" bottles of air with air in doubles > > just to be sure there is no mistake about how dumb they are) with > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They serve a clientele of strokes. > > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to be idiots, the better it will be > for > > all of us. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37 PM > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > > > > > > > List: > > > > > > There has been some confusion about my views, and what I did or did not > > say > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip. Most of these messages were in the > private > > > forum, but I want to say all this in the open. > > > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air diving, diving below 130' without > > > Helium, or any diving operation involved with Brett Gilliam, TDI, or any > > of > > > his buddies. The shop I work for is taking a trip to Truk, on the boat > > > Odyssey. This vessel, at the encouraging of Bret Gilliam, allows *and* > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of 200, because Gilliam says in the > > > ocean you are safe to that depth. I DO NOT agree. It is very clear > that > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter company is falling victim to his > > > stupidity. > > > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to several members of the trip that > the > > > answer is to limit the diving on the trip to depths of 130 or shallower, > > or > > > not go at all. (Helium, which is available, is *very* expensive, so my > > > thinking is that it makes more sense to not do the deep dives, rather > than > > > to pay for the He) As for the other suggestions on the list regarding > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200 foot dive...," in Truk, I also DO > NOT > > > agree with this. This is the exact thing we all are trying to get away > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK," to do these dives without the use > of > > > Helium. > > > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea and those who have put in the time > > > and effort to make it work--If you want to do it DIR in Truk, you have 3 > > > choices: Pay for the gas, stay above 130, or refer to Rule #1. Most, I > > > would think would refer to Rule #1........ > > > > > > Finally, I would like to point out that it is up to us as divers to get > > the > > > point across to these charters....deep air is not safe. I hope this > post > > > has cleared up this mess, and that everyone knows where I stand now. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Mike Strong > > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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