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This guy just made the entire case. George, how much did your Trimix shingle cost? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> To: gzambeck1 <gzambeck1@me*.ne*> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 7:02 AM Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > Zambeck, you give stupid a bad name. You keep getting dumber, more retarded, > more dyslexic , more misinformed, you are a L I A R , an idiot and a > disgrace. > > Show us your track record, I'll show you mine. If you want to see my gas > banks and filling situation, look at DIR I or DIR II. I know just a tiny bit > more about this than you do, asshole, and your efforts to be a typical > officious misinformant for IANTD are noted by all. > > Nobody needs your opinion on my rebreather, which you do not understand or > have ANY information on ( I have three, two variable and one fixed - NONE of > which is 5:1 )and the FACT is I hold the world's record for distance in a > cave on one, I do dives longer than anyone else does on any rebreather, and > neither you nor anyone you know has the resume in this area to even discuss > it with me, and YOU certainly do not have the resume to discuss anything but > bullshit. The only "record" you are in contention for is the most number of > students K I L L E D in one class, you miserable piece of shit, and you need > to shut the fuck up and get off of here before some poor slob believes some > of the dangerous idiocy you spread. > > Also, you blithering, LYING misinformed IDIOT: I was never "used" by anyone, > certainly not "Washington". Besides, he has been dead for a couple of > centuries. > > Greg, you need to be institutionalized in my opinion ( if you are not > already ). > > > > Legal fees George is Zero. > > Now George you mentioned you were sued by Washington. > > Do you want to speak on that subject. > > > > Back to the subject at hand George, CaptJT and Al Marvelli. > > Compressors are one to two thousand per CFM. > > Boosters are 3k used vs 6K new. > > Add 2k for hardware to plum them and you have a home brewing system. > > > > Tanks come from suppliers at 2250 psi if your lucky, now how far do you > get with > > a $15.00 fill whip. > > Your rebreather only get a 5 to 1 increase over open circuit because it's > semi > > closed. > > > > To take a trimix mixing courses you have to a trimix diver and that's > generally > > a 10k investment in diving cost. > > Now add another 5k to 10k for your own diving gear and your ready to fill. > > > > It's simple it's a 3 to 5 year task to become certified to a trimix level. > > So lets add it up. > > Compressor $5,000.00 > > Booster $5,000.00 > > Training & Boat fees $10,000.00 > > Dive gear $5,000.00 Minimum 2 gavins, 1 halcyon, 20 > stages > > $30,000.00 > > Total $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 > > > > Of course the Helium is cheep. > > > > But I have never seen a Lawyer, Stock Broker or Boat Captain who worked > for > > FREE. > > > > Greg Z. > > > > Greg Z. > > > > > > Trey wrote: > > > > > Greg, why don't you go back to the IANTD list where you so clearly > belong? > > > Before you go, tell us how much you spent in legal fees per dead > student. > > > How's the deep air coming Greg? Are you getting any better at it? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: gzambeck1 <gzambeck1@me*.ne*> > > > To: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > > > Cc: George \ Trey\\ Irvine <trey@ne*.co*>; <dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' > > > <scottk@hc*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 9:48 PM > > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > > > > > > > Gentlemen why don't you tell everyone how much you spend on helium per > > > year > > > > > > > > Greg Z. > > > > > > > > Capt JT wrote: > > > > > > > > > Trey, you are exactly right, but you must point out that the whip > you > > > speak > > > > > of only goes one way. If you are doing stage mixes and they are > yoke, > > > you > > > > > will need an adapter, you also need to be able to go to 02 or He > > > cylinder = > > > > > more parts or second whip. > > > > > The welding dealers here will sale you the gas, but you must have a > > > > > contract and pay cylinder rental. This is no new world for me, I > have > > > never > > > > > used anything but welding gas. > > > > > It is also a fact that more than one or 2 or even 3 cylinders must > be > > > used > > > > > to obtain a fill in a set of doubles with a high He content, more so > > > when > > > > > filling your own 02 deco tanks when doing a pressure fill. I am > > > constantly > > > > > cycling out the low cylinders and putting new full ones at the end > of > > > the > > > > > "line" to have the high pressure one needs from doing the transfer > > > pressure > > > > > fill procedure. > > > > > A booster pump makes it much easier, I will venture to say I make > less > > > > > income than any diver who dives as much as I do and I do not do deep > > > air. > > > > > It is a real burden for me, but it proves that if I can do it, so > can > > > those > > > > > who should quit diving deep air and be real leaders. > > > > > > > > > > At 08:24 PM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > > > >JT, I have Sherwood parts and the flex hose , T's > > > > > >and fittings that come from the gas supplier. 80 > > > > > >bucks. The difference between the "grades" of > > > > > >helium is the prices and the number of times they > > > > > >vacuum the bottles. It all comes from the same tank. > > > > > > > > > > > >The suppliers here will not sell welding for diving > > > > > >due to the accidents, but if one wanted to open an > > > > > >account as a welding operation, one could, but I get > > > > > >it delivered to the house. I'll pay the extra for > > > > > >the convenience. > > > > > > > > > > > >I realize this is Brave New World for most of you, > > > > > >but get serious, it is dead nuts simple. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > > > > > >To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; dwiden@ho*.co* > > > > > ><dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > > > > >techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > >Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:03 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on > > > > > >and on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Actually your both right and both wrong. No one > > > > > >here gets He and 02 as > > > > > > >cheap as I do. Of all the postings I've seen on > > > > > >prices, no one comes even > > > > > > >close to my price. Then again I am using Industrial > > > > > >grade gas ( better > > > > > > >known as welding gas) I do not offer it to anyone > > > > > >else as it becomes a > > > > > > >hassle for me to get and not everyone is > > > > > >comfortable with it, some think > > > > > > >they must have medical grade gas. Those that must > > > > > >purchase He though a dive > > > > > > >shop, must pay the higher price because they, in > > > > > >the best interest of the > > > > > > >customer must use the medical grade gas, which is > > > > > >much higher in cost. If > > > > > > >they did not and something happen surely a dive > > > > > >Lawyer of some kind would > > > > > > >get involved. Also I saw mentioned of a price for > > > > > >330cuft of He. There is > > > > > > >not a cylinder for that amount. A "T" bottle of He > > > > > >holds 286 cuft at 2,640 > > > > > > >psi and a "K" bottle holds 213 cuft at 2,200 psi. > > > > > >There is a seldom used > > > > > > >cylinder called a HC-500 which holds 432 cuft at > > > > > >4,500 psi , but I have > > > > > > >been unable to get one. Those that have been to my > > > > > >home and seen the rows > > > > > > >of He and 02 can't believe I keep that much here. > > > > > > I also have argon) > > > > > > >As for the whip, yes you can purchase a piss poor > > > > > >whip for 80 dollars, that > > > > > > >has no Gauge and is as short as my dick. I have the > > > > > >most advance portable > > > > > > >transfer whip "kit" made, with gauges, hose, > > > > > >anlayzer, quick disconnects > > > > > > >that allow me to do everything I need in a > > > > > >transfer. The 80 dollars won't > > > > > > >buy the pelican box that carries the stuff.It did > > > > > >not come from a dive shop. > > > > > > >Sometime this weekend I will put on my site all the > > > > > >facts about the 02,He > > > > > > >T&K bottles and others along with details and > > > > > >photos, I have often heard > > > > > > >people ask what the difference was, from this post > > > > > >you all should know now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:38 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > > > > >>ALL BULLSHIT - grade of helium means nothing. Here > > > > > >in SF we have to use USP > > > > > > >>because of the accidents that Mouth's idiots have > > > > > >had, but "welding" helium > > > > > > >>is fine. The parts can be obtained from the gas > > > > > >supplier, a whip is about 80 > > > > > > >>bucks absolute MAX . You idiots are just used to > > > > > >the standard dive industry > > > > > > >>bullshit. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >>From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*> > > > > > > >>To: 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > > > > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > >>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:03 AM > > > > > > >>Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes > > > > > >on and on > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Scott > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I do not know where in the world you are but > > > > > >for USP HE I wish we could > > > > > > >>get > > > > > > >> > it from the suppliers for .13 ft. You are > > > > > >probably getting welding grade > > > > > > >>for > > > > > > >> > that. Plus you need to add the tank > > > > > >rental/delivery charges and unusable > > > > > > >>gas > > > > > > >> > (can get it all out) cost to the cu ft charge. > > > > > >The last time I check, a > > > > > > >>good > > > > > > >> > HE/O2 Parcial Pressure filler whip with gauges > > > > > >is $600-$800, O2 analyzer, > > > > > > >> > ignore the compressor and labor. What are parts > > > > > >of the business are there > > > > > > >> > cover. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > David > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > >> > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] > > > > > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:13 AM > > > > > > >> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey > > > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat > > > > > >goes on and on > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > The next thing we have to work on is a way to > > > > > >get the > > > > > > >> > > agencies to embrace > > > > > > >> > > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the hands > > > > > >of advanced level > > > > > > >> > > recreational > > > > > > >> > > divers. I have been turning people on to HOTx > > > > > >for 6 months, > > > > > > >> > > but there are > > > > > > >> > > several problems: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot > > > > > >for He, which is > > > > > > >> > > ludicrous, since > > > > > > >> > > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The typical > > > > > >reasons are > > > > > > >> > > "because I have to > > > > > > >> > > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a > > > > > >parallel, one of my > > > > > > >> > > buds has an > > > > > > >> > > office supply biz. He has two copiers that > > > > > >cost more than any > > > > > > >> > > compressor, > > > > > > >> > > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and .25 > > > > > >a copy from the > > > > > > >> > > other. Others > > > > > > >> > > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120 > > > > > >dollars. We can > > > > > > >> > > double the money > > > > > > >> > > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around $28 > > > > > >to $32 for most > > > > > > >> > > dubs. This rip > > > > > > >> > > off has to be brought to light as well. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of > > > > > >TDI or IANTD > > > > > > >> > > training to be able > > > > > > >> > > to use the gas, which, in reality, is *safer* > > > > > >than air for diving. > > > > > > >> > > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me > > > > > >who will do a fill > > > > > > >> > > for people I > > > > > > >> > > know, they are unable to use the gas anywhere > > > > > >else, unless > > > > > > >> > > they blend it in > > > > > > >> > > their garage, which many are doing. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the > > > > > >gas, and he was > > > > > > >> > > amazed at how > > > > > > >> > > much better he felt afterwards. Normally, his > > > > > >hands really > > > > > > >> > > hurt after diving > > > > > > >> > > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't > > > > > >have that effect. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > I brought this up to the "instructor base" > > > > > >over on rec.scuba, and they > > > > > > >> > > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI and > > > > > >IANTD totally > > > > > > >> > > missed the ball > > > > > > >> > > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix > > > > > >course", which is > > > > > > >> > > just another way > > > > > > >> > > to separate you from your money. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just > > > > > >remember the noise made when > > > > > > >> > > Nitrox was suggested for recreational divers. > > > > > >Mountains of > > > > > > >> > > dead divers were > > > > > > >> > > predicted... > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Scott > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> > > > > > > >> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong > > > > > ><divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > > > > >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM > > > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat > > > > > >goes on and on > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > If all of us insist that these guys do > > > > > >things properly , > > > > > > >> > > then they will > > > > > > >> > > find > > > > > > >> > > > a way to do that. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > The problem is that when idiots like > > > > > >Gilliam get into the > > > > > > >> > > mix, we all > > > > > > >> > > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000 > > > > > >miles to dive in a > > > > > > >> > > great spot and > > > > > > >> > > > doing it on air. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey, > > > > > >where the Seeker > > > > > > >> > > idiots proudly > > > > > > >> > > dive > > > > > > >> > > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney" bottles > > > > > >of air with air > > > > > > >> > > in doubles > > > > > > >> > > > just to be sure there is no mistake about > > > > > >how dumb they are) with > > > > > > >> > > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They > > > > > >serve a clientele > > > > > > >> > > of strokes. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to be > > > > > >idiots, the > > > > > > >> > > better it will be > > > > > > >> > > for > > > > > > >> > > > all of us. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >> > > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > > > > >> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > >> > > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*> > > > > > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37 PM > > > > > > >> > > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat > > > > > >goes on and on > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > List: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > There has been some confusion about my > > > > > >views, and what I > > > > > > >> > > did or did not > > > > > > >> > > > say > > > > > > >> > > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip. Most of > > > > > >these messages were in the > > > > > > >> > > private > > > > > > >> > > > > forum, but I want to say all this in the > > > > > >open. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air > > > > > >diving, diving > > > > > > >> > > below 130' without > > > > > > >> > > > > Helium, or any diving operation involved > > > > > >with Brett > > > > > > >> > > Gilliam, TDI, or any > > > > > > >> > > > of > > > > > > >> > > > > his buddies. The shop I work for is > > > > > >taking a trip to > > > > > > >> > > Truk, on the boat > > > > > > >> > > > > Odyssey. This vessel, at the encouraging > > > > > >of Bret > > > > > > >> > > Gilliam, allows *and* > > > > > > >> > > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of > > > > > >200, because > > > > > > >> > > Gilliam says in the > > > > > > >> > > > > ocean you are safe to that depth. I DO > > > > > >NOT agree. It is > > > > > > >> > > very clear > > > > > > >> > > that > > > > > > >> > > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter > > > > > >company is falling > > > > > > >> > > victim to his > > > > > > >> > > > > stupidity. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to > > > > > >several members of > > > > > > >> > > the trip that > > > > > > >> > > the > > > > > > >> > > > > answer is to limit the diving on the trip > > > > > >to depths of > > > > > > >> > > 130 or shallower, > > > > > > >> > > > or > > > > > > >> > > > > not go at all. (Helium, which is > > > > > >available, is *very* > > > > > > >> > > expensive, so my > > > > > > >> > > > > thinking is that it makes more sense to > > > > > >not do the deep > > > > > > >> > > dives, rather > > > > > > >> > > than > > > > > > >> > > > > to pay for the He) As for the other > > > > > >suggestions on the > > > > > > >> > > list regarding > > > > > > >> > > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200 foot > > > > > >dive...," in > > > > > > >> > > Truk, I also DO > > > > > > >> > > NOT > > > > > > >> > > > > agree with this. This is the exact thing > > > > > >we all are > > > > > > >> > > trying to get away > > > > > > >> > > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK," to > > > > > >do these dives > > > > > > >> > > without the use > > > > > > >> > > of > > > > > > >> > > > > Helium. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea and > > > > > >those who have > > > > > > >> > > put in the time > > > > > > >> > > > > and effort to make it work--If you want > > > > > >to do it DIR in > > > > > > >> > > Truk, you have 3 > > > > > > >> > > > > choices: Pay for the gas, stay above > > > > > >130, or refer to > > > > > > >> > > Rule #1. Most, I > > > > > > >> > > > > would think would refer to Rule > > > > > >#1........ > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Finally, I would like to point out that > > > > > >it is up to us as > > > > > > >> > > divers to get > > > > > > >> > > > the > > > > > > >> > > > > point across to these charters....deep > > > > > >air is not safe. > > > > > > >> > > I hope this > > > > > > >> > > post > > > > > > >> > > > > has cleared up this mess, and that > > > > > >everyone knows where I > > > > > > >> > > stand now. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Best, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Mike Strong > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > > > > >> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list > > > > > >to > > > > > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > -- > > > > > > >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > -- > > > > > > >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>-- > > > > > > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or > > > > > >later you have to get in the > > > > > > >water" > > > > > > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East > > > > > >Coast & more > > > > > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > > > > >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get > in > > > the > > > > > water" > > > > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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