JT, good to point this stuff out. Let me suggest that people use my mixing
protocol ( DIRI and DIR II ) and our bottle marking scheme, and deployment
scheme to avoid the only idiosyncratic risk in gas diving.


> Yes, it makes more sense now. I think Dave and I were talking the Big
> Picture, you were just talking hose and basic fittings. You have to have
> the connection for the scuba tanks, I got the "combination tank checker"
> which has  everything and removed the gauge and added quick disconnects to
> it, the hose and gauge. That allowed me to do several things with it, I
had
> my hose made at a hose shop, high pressure/SS 1/4 MNPT on the ends(54
> dollars 6ft). The tank checker was around 125 dollars, I got 2 of them one
> for each end, then added quick disconnects to them and to the 02 & He
> bottle adapters, now I can go from Din to Din, Yoke to Yoke,Yoke to Din,
02
> or He to Din or Yoke and still use them as pressure checkers. I added a
> control valve and better gauges later on. This can be seen on my site
right
> now on the gear tips page under "Mixing Kit"  www.capt-jt.com  I should
> have the "Bottles" page up by tomorrow. Mixing is not rocket science, the
> problem most have with it is "self confidence", one thing VBtech does when
> we prepare for a dive, you are invited and encourage to help and be
present
> at your own mixing of your tanks. You do not need a card for that. The
only
> draw back is what the shop has to pay for the He and then it is past on to
> the diver, if it was not for the "Lawyers" who would surely say it is
> unsafe in court to make a buck , everyone would be using welding gas.
>
>    At 02:46 PM 9/30/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
> >JT, I'm saying you can get that all from the gas
> >supplier with the exception of the part that fits
> >the scuba tank, not that you do not need it. I think
> >we are  missing each other here someplace on this.
> >The other end gets the threaded fitting that goes
> >with the flex hose fittings.
> >
> >Anyway, the point is that one does not have to take
> >a beating to do this, or deal with dive shop
> >officiousness and card waving strokes.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
> >To: George "Trey" Irvine <trey@ne*.co*>;
> >dwiden@ho*.co* <dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott'
> ><scottk@hc*.co*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com
> ><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on
> >and on
> >
> >
> > >Trey, you are exactly right, but you must point out
> >that the whip you speak
> > >of only goes one way. If you are doing stage mixes
> >and they are yoke, you
> > >will need an adapter, you also need to be able to
> >go to 02 or He cylinder =
> > >more parts or second whip.
> > >The welding dealers here will sale you the gas, but
> >you must have a
> > >contract and pay cylinder rental. This is no new
> >world for me, I have never
> > >used anything but welding gas.
> > >It is also a fact that more than one or 2 or even 3
> >cylinders must be used
> > >to obtain a fill in a set of doubles with a high He
> >content, more so when
> > >filling your own 02 deco tanks when doing a
> >pressure fill. I am constantly
> > >cycling out the low cylinders and putting new full
> >ones at the end of the
> > >"line" to have the high pressure one needs from
> >doing the transfer pressure
> > >fill procedure.
> > >A booster pump makes it much easier, I will venture
> >to say I make less
> > >income than any diver who dives as much as I do and
> >I do not do deep air.
> > >It is a real burden for me, but it proves that if I
> >can do it, so can those
> > >who should quit diving deep air and be real
> >leaders.
> > >
> > >  At 08:24 PM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
> > >>JT, I have Sherwood parts and the flex hose , T's
> > >>and fittings that come from the gas supplier. 80
> > >>bucks.  The difference between the "grades" of
> > >>helium is the prices and the number of times they
> > >>vacuum the bottles. It all comes from the same
> >tank.
> > >>
> > >>The suppliers here will not sell welding for
> >diving
> > >>due to the accidents, but if one wanted to open an
> > >>account as a welding operation, one could, but I
> >get
> > >>it delivered to the house. I'll pay the extra for
> > >>the convenience.
> > >>
> > >>I realize this is Brave New World for most of you,
> > >>but get serious, it is dead nuts simple.
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
> > >>To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; dwiden@ho*.co*
> > >><dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>;
> > >>techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >>Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:03 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes
> >on
> > >>and on
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >Actually your both right and both wrong. No one
> > >>here gets He and 02 as
> > >> >cheap as I do. Of all the postings I've seen on
> > >>prices, no one comes even
> > >> >close to my price. Then again I am using
> >Industrial
> > >>grade gas ( better
> > >> >known as welding gas) I do not offer it to
> >anyone
> > >>else as it becomes a
> > >> >hassle for me to get and not everyone is
> > >>comfortable with it, some think
> > >> >they must have medical grade gas. Those that
> >must
> > >>purchase He though a dive
> > >> >shop, must pay the higher price because they, in
> > >>the best interest of the
> > >> >customer must use the medical grade gas, which
> >is
> > >>much higher in cost. If
> > >> >they did not and something happen surely a dive
> > >>Lawyer of some kind would
> > >> >get involved. Also I saw mentioned of a price
> >for
> > >>330cuft of He. There is
> > >> >not a cylinder for that amount. A "T" bottle of
> >He
> > >>holds 286 cuft at 2,640
> > >> >psi and a "K" bottle holds 213 cuft at 2,200
> >psi.
> > >>There is a seldom used
> > >> >cylinder called a HC-500 which holds 432 cuft at
> > >>4,500 psi , but I have
> > >> >been unable to get one.  Those that have been to
> >my
> > >>home and seen the rows
> > >> >of He and 02 can't believe I keep that much
> >here.
> > >>  I also have argon)
> > >> >As for the whip, yes you can purchase a piss
> >poor
> > >>whip for 80 dollars, that
> > >> >has no Gauge and is as short as my dick. I have
> >the
> > >>most advance portable
> > >> >transfer whip "kit" made, with gauges, hose,
> > >>anlayzer, quick disconnects
> > >> >that allow me to do everything I need in a
> > >>transfer. The 80 dollars won't
> > >> >buy the pelican box that carries the stuff.It
> >did
> > >>not come from a dive shop.
> > >> >Sometime this weekend I will put on my site all
> >the
> > >>facts about the 02,He
> > >> >T&K bottles and others along with details and
> > >>photos, I have often heard
> > >> >people ask what the difference was, from this
> >post
> > >>you all should know now.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >At 08:38 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
> > >> >>ALL BULLSHIT - grade of helium means nothing.
> >Here
> > >>in SF we have to use USP
> > >> >>because of the accidents that Mouth's idiots
> >have
> > >>had, but "welding" helium
> > >> >>is fine. The parts can be obtained from the gas
> > >>supplier, a whip is about 80
> > >> >>bucks absolute MAX . You idiots are just used
> >to
> > >>the standard dive industry
> > >> >>bullshit.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>----- Original Message -----
> > >> >>From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*>
> > >> >>To: 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>;
> > >><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >> >>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:03 AM
> > >> >>Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat
> >goes
> > >>on and on
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Scott
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I do not know where in the world you are but
> > >>for USP HE I wish we could
> > >> >>get
> > >> >> > it from the suppliers for .13 ft. You are
> > >>probably getting welding grade
> > >> >>for
> > >> >> > that. Plus you need to add the tank
> > >>rental/delivery charges and unusable
> > >> >>gas
> > >> >> > (can get it all out) cost to the cu ft
> >charge.
> > >>The last time I check, a
> > >> >>good
> > >> >> > HE/O2 Parcial Pressure filler whip with
> >gauges
> > >>is $600-$800, O2 analyzer,
> > >> >> > ignore the compressor and labor. What are
> >parts
> > >>of the business are there
> > >> >> > cover.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > David
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*]
> > >> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:13
> >AM
> > >> >> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey
> > >> >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the
> >beat
> > >>goes on and on
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > The next thing we have to work on is a way
> >to
> > >>get the
> > >> >> > > agencies to embrace
> > >> >> > > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the
> >hands
> > >>of advanced level
> > >> >> > > recreational
> > >> >> > > divers. I have been turning people on to
> >HOTx
> > >>for 6 months,
> > >> >> > > but there are
> > >> >> > > several problems:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot
> > >>for He, which is
> > >> >> > > ludicrous, since
> > >> >> > > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The
> >typical
> > >>reasons are
> > >> >> > > "because I have to
> > >> >> > > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a
> > >>parallel, one of my
> > >> >> > > buds has an
> > >> >> > > office supply biz. He has two copiers that
> > >>cost more than any
> > >> >> > > compressor,
> > >> >> > > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and
> >.25
> > >>a copy from the
> > >> >> > > other. Others
> > >> >> > > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120
> > >>dollars. We can
> > >> >> > > double the money
> > >> >> > > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around
> >$28
> > >>to $32 for most
> > >> >> > > dubs. This rip
> > >> >> > > off has to be brought to light as well.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of
> > >>TDI or IANTD
> > >> >> > > training to be able
> > >> >> > > to use the gas, which, in reality, is
> >*safer*
> > >>than air for diving.
> > >> >> > > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me
> > >>who will do a fill
> > >> >> > > for people I
> > >> >> > > know, they are unable to use the gas
> >anywhere
> > >>else, unless
> > >> >> > > they blend it in
> > >> >> > > their garage, which many are doing.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the
> > >>gas, and he was
> > >> >> > > amazed at how
> > >> >> > > much better he felt afterwards. Normally,
> >his
> > >>hands really
> > >> >> > > hurt after diving
> > >> >> > > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't
> > >>have that effect.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I brought this up to the "instructor base"
> > >>over on rec.scuba, and they
> > >> >> > > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI
> >and
> > >>IANTD totally
> > >> >> > > missed the ball
> > >> >> > > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix
> > >>course", which is
> > >> >> > > just another way
> > >> >> > > to separate you from your money.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just
> > >>remember the noise made when
> > >> >> > > Nitrox was suggested for recreational
> >divers.
> > >>Mountains of
> > >> >> > > dead divers were
> > >> >> > > predicted...
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Scott
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > >> >> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong
> > >><divermike@fn*.ne*>
> > >> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM
> > >> >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the
> >beat
> > >>goes on and on
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > > If all of us insist that these guys do
> > >>things properly ,
> > >> >> > > then they will
> > >> >> > > find
> > >> >> > > > a way to do that.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > The problem is that when idiots like
> > >>Gilliam get into the
> > >> >> > > mix, we all
> > >> >> > > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000
> > >>miles to dive in a
> > >> >> > > great spot and
> > >> >> > > > doing it on air.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey,
> > >>where the Seeker
> > >> >> > > idiots proudly
> > >> >> > > dive
> > >> >> > > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney"
> >bottles
> > >>of air with air
> > >> >> > > in doubles
> > >> >> > > >  just to be sure there is no mistake
> >about
> > >>how dumb they are) with
> > >> >> > > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They
> > >>serve a clientele
> > >> >> > > of strokes.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to
> >be
> > >>idiots, the
> > >> >> > > better it will be
> > >> >> > > for
> > >> >> > > > all of us.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> > > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*>
> > >> >> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >> >> > > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*>
> > >> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37
> >PM
> > >> >> > > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat
> > >>goes on and on
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > > List:
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > There has been some confusion about my
> > >>views, and what I
> > >> >> > > did or did not
> > >> >> > > > say
> > >> >> > > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip.  Most of
> > >>these messages were in the
> > >> >> > > private
> > >> >> > > > > forum, but I want to say all this in
> >the
> > >>open.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air
> > >>diving, diving
> > >> >> > > below 130' without
> > >> >> > > > > Helium, or any diving operation
> >involved
> > >>with Brett
> > >> >> > > Gilliam, TDI, or any
> > >> >> > > > of
> > >> >> > > > > his buddies.  The shop I work for is
> > >>taking a trip to
> > >> >> > > Truk, on the boat
> > >> >> > > > > Odyssey.  This vessel, at the
> >encouraging
> > >>of Bret
> > >> >> > > Gilliam, allows *and*
> > >> >> > > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of
> > >>200, because
> > >> >> > > Gilliam says in the
> > >> >> > > > > ocean you are safe to that depth.  I
> >DO
> > >>NOT agree.  It is
> > >> >> > > very clear
> > >> >> > > that
> > >> >> > > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter
> > >>company is falling
> > >> >> > > victim to his
> > >> >> > > > > stupidity.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to
> > >>several members of
> > >> >> > > the trip that
> > >> >> > > the
> > >> >> > > > > answer is to limit the diving on the
> >trip
> > >>to depths of
> > >> >> > > 130 or shallower,
> > >> >> > > > or
> > >> >> > > > > not go at all.  (Helium, which is
> > >>available, is *very*
> > >> >> > > expensive, so my
> > >> >> > > > > thinking is that it makes more sense
> >to
> > >>not do the deep
> > >> >> > > dives, rather
> > >> >> > > than
> > >> >> > > > > to pay for the He)  As for the other
> > >>suggestions on the
> > >> >> > > list regarding
> > >> >> > > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200
> >foot
> > >>dive...," in
> > >> >> > > Truk, I also DO
> > >> >> > > NOT
> > >> >> > > > > agree with this.  This is the exact
> >thing
> > >>we all are
> > >> >> > > trying to get away
> > >> >> > > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK,"
> >to
> > >>do these dives
> > >> >> > > without the use
> > >> >> > > of
> > >> >> > > > > Helium.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea
> >and
> > >>those who have
> > >> >> > > put in the time
> > >> >> > > > > and effort to make it work--If you
> >want
> > >>to do it DIR in
> > >> >> > > Truk, you have 3
> > >> >> > > > > choices:  Pay for the gas, stay above
> > >>130, or refer to
> > >> >> > > Rule #1.  Most, I
> > >> >> > > > > would think would refer to Rule
> > >>#1........
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > Finally, I would like to point out
> >that
> > >>it is up to us as
> > >> >> > > divers to get
> > >> >> > > > the
> > >> >> > > > > point across to these charters....deep
> > >>air is not safe.
> > >> >> > > I hope this
> > >> >> > > post
> > >> >> > > > > has cleared up this mess, and that
> > >>everyone knows where I
> > >> >> > > stand now.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > Best,
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > Mike Strong
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > --
> > >> >> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing
> >list
> > >>to
> > >> >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >> >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list
> >to
> > >> >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >> >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list
> >to
> > >>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>--
> > >> >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > >>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >> >
> > >> >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or
> > >>later you have to get in the
> > >> >water"
> > >> >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East
> > >>Coast & more
> > >> >  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > >> >Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or
> >later you have to get in the
> > >water"
> > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East
> >Coast & more
> > >  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > >Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
>
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> water"
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
>   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
> --
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