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Greg, why don't you go back to the IANTD list where you so clearly belong? Before you go, tell us how much you spent in legal fees per dead student. How's the deep air coming Greg? Are you getting any better at it? ----- Original Message ----- From: gzambeck1 <gzambeck1@me*.ne*> To: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> Cc: George \ Trey\\ Irvine <trey@ne*.co*>; <dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 9:48 PM Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on > Gentlemen why don't you tell everyone how much you spend on helium per year > > Greg Z. > > Capt JT wrote: > > > Trey, you are exactly right, but you must point out that the whip you speak > > of only goes one way. If you are doing stage mixes and they are yoke, you > > will need an adapter, you also need to be able to go to 02 or He cylinder = > > more parts or second whip. > > The welding dealers here will sale you the gas, but you must have a > > contract and pay cylinder rental. This is no new world for me, I have never > > used anything but welding gas. > > It is also a fact that more than one or 2 or even 3 cylinders must be used > > to obtain a fill in a set of doubles with a high He content, more so when > > filling your own 02 deco tanks when doing a pressure fill. I am constantly > > cycling out the low cylinders and putting new full ones at the end of the > > "line" to have the high pressure one needs from doing the transfer pressure > > fill procedure. > > A booster pump makes it much easier, I will venture to say I make less > > income than any diver who dives as much as I do and I do not do deep air. > > It is a real burden for me, but it proves that if I can do it, so can those > > who should quit diving deep air and be real leaders. > > > > At 08:24 PM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > >JT, I have Sherwood parts and the flex hose , T's > > >and fittings that come from the gas supplier. 80 > > >bucks. The difference between the "grades" of > > >helium is the prices and the number of times they > > >vacuum the bottles. It all comes from the same tank. > > > > > >The suppliers here will not sell welding for diving > > >due to the accidents, but if one wanted to open an > > >account as a welding operation, one could, but I get > > >it delivered to the house. I'll pay the extra for > > >the convenience. > > > > > >I realize this is Brave New World for most of you, > > >but get serious, it is dead nuts simple. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> > > >To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; dwiden@ho*.co* > > ><dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > >techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:03 PM > > >Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on > > >and on > > > > > > > > > >Actually your both right and both wrong. No one > > >here gets He and 02 as > > > >cheap as I do. Of all the postings I've seen on > > >prices, no one comes even > > > >close to my price. Then again I am using Industrial > > >grade gas ( better > > > >known as welding gas) I do not offer it to anyone > > >else as it becomes a > > > >hassle for me to get and not everyone is > > >comfortable with it, some think > > > >they must have medical grade gas. Those that must > > >purchase He though a dive > > > >shop, must pay the higher price because they, in > > >the best interest of the > > > >customer must use the medical grade gas, which is > > >much higher in cost. If > > > >they did not and something happen surely a dive > > >Lawyer of some kind would > > > >get involved. Also I saw mentioned of a price for > > >330cuft of He. There is > > > >not a cylinder for that amount. A "T" bottle of He > > >holds 286 cuft at 2,640 > > > >psi and a "K" bottle holds 213 cuft at 2,200 psi. > > >There is a seldom used > > > >cylinder called a HC-500 which holds 432 cuft at > > >4,500 psi , but I have > > > >been unable to get one. Those that have been to my > > >home and seen the rows > > > >of He and 02 can't believe I keep that much here. > > > I also have argon) > > > >As for the whip, yes you can purchase a piss poor > > >whip for 80 dollars, that > > > >has no Gauge and is as short as my dick. I have the > > >most advance portable > > > >transfer whip "kit" made, with gauges, hose, > > >anlayzer, quick disconnects > > > >that allow me to do everything I need in a > > >transfer. The 80 dollars won't > > > >buy the pelican box that carries the stuff.It did > > >not come from a dive shop. > > > >Sometime this weekend I will put on my site all the > > >facts about the 02,He > > > >T&K bottles and others along with details and > > >photos, I have often heard > > > >people ask what the difference was, from this post > > >you all should know now. > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:38 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote: > > > >>ALL BULLSHIT - grade of helium means nothing. Here > > >in SF we have to use USP > > > >>because of the accidents that Mouth's idiots have > > >had, but "welding" helium > > > >>is fine. The parts can be obtained from the gas > > >supplier, a whip is about 80 > > > >>bucks absolute MAX . You idiots are just used to > > >the standard dive industry > > > >>bullshit. > > > >> > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > >>From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*> > > > >>To: 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>; > > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:03 AM > > > >>Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes > > >on and on > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Scott > > > >> > > > > >> > I do not know where in the world you are but > > >for USP HE I wish we could > > > >>get > > > >> > it from the suppliers for .13 ft. You are > > >probably getting welding grade > > > >>for > > > >> > that. Plus you need to add the tank > > >rental/delivery charges and unusable > > > >>gas > > > >> > (can get it all out) cost to the cu ft charge. > > >The last time I check, a > > > >>good > > > >> > HE/O2 Parcial Pressure filler whip with gauges > > >is $600-$800, O2 analyzer, > > > >> > ignore the compressor and labor. What are parts > > >of the business are there > > > >> > cover. > > > >> > > > > >> > David > > > >> > > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] > > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:13 AM > > > >> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey > > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat > > >goes on and on > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > The next thing we have to work on is a way to > > >get the > > > >> > > agencies to embrace > > > >> > > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the hands > > >of advanced level > > > >> > > recreational > > > >> > > divers. I have been turning people on to HOTx > > >for 6 months, > > > >> > > but there are > > > >> > > several problems: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot > > >for He, which is > > > >> > > ludicrous, since > > > >> > > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The typical > > >reasons are > > > >> > > "because I have to > > > >> > > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a > > >parallel, one of my > > > >> > > buds has an > > > >> > > office supply biz. He has two copiers that > > >cost more than any > > > >> > > compressor, > > > >> > > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and .25 > > >a copy from the > > > >> > > other. Others > > > >> > > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120 > > >dollars. We can > > > >> > > double the money > > > >> > > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around $28 > > >to $32 for most > > > >> > > dubs. This rip > > > >> > > off has to be brought to light as well. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of > > >TDI or IANTD > > > >> > > training to be able > > > >> > > to use the gas, which, in reality, is *safer* > > >than air for diving. > > > >> > > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me > > >who will do a fill > > > >> > > for people I > > > >> > > know, they are unable to use the gas anywhere > > >else, unless > > > >> > > they blend it in > > > >> > > their garage, which many are doing. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the > > >gas, and he was > > > >> > > amazed at how > > > >> > > much better he felt afterwards. Normally, his > > >hands really > > > >> > > hurt after diving > > > >> > > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't > > >have that effect. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I brought this up to the "instructor base" > > >over on rec.scuba, and they > > > >> > > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI and > > >IANTD totally > > > >> > > missed the ball > > > >> > > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix > > >course", which is > > > >> > > just another way > > > >> > > to separate you from your money. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just > > >remember the noise made when > > > >> > > Nitrox was suggested for recreational divers. > > >Mountains of > > > >> > > dead divers were > > > >> > > predicted... > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Scott > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> > > > >> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong > > ><divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM > > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat > > >goes on and on > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > If all of us insist that these guys do > > >things properly , > > > >> > > then they will > > > >> > > find > > > >> > > > a way to do that. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > The problem is that when idiots like > > >Gilliam get into the > > > >> > > mix, we all > > > >> > > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000 > > >miles to dive in a > > > >> > > great spot and > > > >> > > > doing it on air. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey, > > >where the Seeker > > > >> > > idiots proudly > > > >> > > dive > > > >> > > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney" bottles > > >of air with air > > > >> > > in doubles > > > >> > > > just to be sure there is no mistake about > > >how dumb they are) with > > > >> > > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They > > >serve a clientele > > > >> > > of strokes. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to be > > >idiots, the > > > >> > > better it will be > > > >> > > for > > > >> > > > all of us. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*> > > > >> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >> > > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*> > > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37 PM > > > >> > > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat > > >goes on and on > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > List: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > There has been some confusion about my > > >views, and what I > > > >> > > did or did not > > > >> > > > say > > > >> > > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip. Most of > > >these messages were in the > > > >> > > private > > > >> > > > > forum, but I want to say all this in the > > >open. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air > > >diving, diving > > > >> > > below 130' without > > > >> > > > > Helium, or any diving operation involved > > >with Brett > > > >> > > Gilliam, TDI, or any > > > >> > > > of > > > >> > > > > his buddies. The shop I work for is > > >taking a trip to > > > >> > > Truk, on the boat > > > >> > > > > Odyssey. This vessel, at the encouraging > > >of Bret > > > >> > > Gilliam, allows *and* > > > >> > > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of > > >200, because > > > >> > > Gilliam says in the > > > >> > > > > ocean you are safe to that depth. I DO > > >NOT agree. It is > > > >> > > very clear > > > >> > > that > > > >> > > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter > > >company is falling > > > >> > > victim to his > > > >> > > > > stupidity. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to > > >several members of > > > >> > > the trip that > > > >> > > the > > > >> > > > > answer is to limit the diving on the trip > > >to depths of > > > >> > > 130 or shallower, > > > >> > > > or > > > >> > > > > not go at all. (Helium, which is > > >available, is *very* > > > >> > > expensive, so my > > > >> > > > > thinking is that it makes more sense to > > >not do the deep > > > >> > > dives, rather > > > >> > > than > > > >> > > > > to pay for the He) As for the other > > >suggestions on the > > > >> > > list regarding > > > >> > > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200 foot > > >dive...," in > > > >> > > Truk, I also DO > > > >> > > NOT > > > >> > > > > agree with this. This is the exact thing > > >we all are > > > >> > > trying to get away > > > >> > > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK," to > > >do these dives > > > >> > > without the use > > > >> > > of > > > >> > > > > Helium. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea and > > >those who have > > > >> > > put in the time > > > >> > > > > and effort to make it work--If you want > > >to do it DIR in > > > >> > > Truk, you have 3 > > > >> > > > > choices: Pay for the gas, stay above > > >130, or refer to > > > >> > > Rule #1. Most, I > > > >> > > > > would think would refer to Rule > > >#1........ > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Finally, I would like to point out that > > >it is up to us as > > > >> > > divers to get > > > >> > > > the > > > >> > > > > point across to these charters....deep > > >air is not safe. > > > >> > > I hope this > > > >> > > post > > > >> > > > > has cleared up this mess, and that > > >everyone knows where I > > > >> > > stand now. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Best, > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Mike Strong > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > >> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list > > >to > > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > -- > > > >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >>-- > > > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or > > >later you have to get in the > > > >water" > > > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East > > >Coast & more > > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > > >Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the > > water" > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ > > Email captjt@mi*.co* > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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