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Hi David,
I remember seeing the thread a while back. When JT mentioned he is using a
better system, I was curious and had thought you guys have come up with
something totally new. But basically, just adding the unit to MOD isn't a
big deal.
I thought JT and I were *not* talking about whether marking MOD is a good
thing or not, it's a given.
We are talking about adding "FT" to the MOD and claiming that it is a better
system.
I have some comments about your reasons:
a. 1, 2 and 3 are the same conditions for everybody else around the world as
well.
b. 4 actually is off. MOD meant to let one know if it is OK to breath down
to a certain depth from PPO2 stand-point. It doesn't tell you what's in the
tank (i.e. it could be normoxic trimix for deep stops, etc.)
c. The tank content analysis tape at the tank neck tells the diver what is
in the tank.
d. Who uses METRIC in the US anyway ? So why is the need to mark the unit ?
e. JT originally mentioned that the unit "FT" was added to avoid confusion.
What confusion ? The support divers should know the system (I hope). Other
divers should *not* be touching tanks not belong to them. So I thought JT
meant in case of surface emergency, people might grab a "60"-ft tank
thinking that it is a EAN"60" tank. But the content label is clearly
indicated the O2 %. So why is the need for the unit ?
Guys, let's not carry this thread any further since it was hashed to death a
few years ago. I don't care what you guys do, you know better of your
environment. I just thought JT had something new...
-Phi
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Widen [mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 2:24 PM
To: 'Capt JT'; 'Phi Le'
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Tank Marking was RE: re vb tech report
Phi Le
I was part of the discussion and decision making process that evolved the
additional information on the tanks. The result was posted almost two years
ago by Jim Cobb (also part of the discussion & decision). Another e-mail
discussion occurred about a year ago - same subject - please review Tech
Diver Archives.
Basic reasons (2 years ago):
1. We (Mid-Atlantic) are not part of a project, we do not have a director
(although JT is xxx ;-), we cannot control everyone on the boat when it is
an open trip. Yes we can when it is a charter.
2. We, as a group, are trying to improve and change the way people dive in
this area to improve on the safety and understanding.
3. On open boat trips, we have both tech and non-tech divers on the boat.
Generally Rec get 2 dives same location and Tech get 1 long dive. It is a
source of questions and then ongoing discussion about equipment setup and
configuration with Rec and other Tech divers or tech wanna bees.
4. It is a good way to clarify "What is in the Tanks" for the uninformed!
5. It eliminates error for deck support and new support divers.
6. It defines what is the unit of measurement (feet vs. meters) and
limits.
I could go on about other points and reasons. This should be enough as to
why.
I agree with the points of size and minimizing what is on the tanks. I
agree with many of the points discussed last time around. In our limited
visibility, once the tanks leave the boat, unless you are with 5 ~ 20 feet
of the diver (viz dependent), you cannot read them away. So it is more
important on the boat and for support to know what you need and where to get
it. Of coarse the number one issue is the diver knowing what gas they are
switching to or using.
George has a very good system and it is perfect in the environment used.
As more people outside that realm start using it, the initial need we saw
for the additional tank marking will dissipate. Since two years ago, the
needs has already begun to change and the knowledge around this area has
improved.
We need to educate the old divers and set the new ones on a better path.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 7:33 PM
To: Phi Le
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: re vb tech report
Phi Le
You are correct, after rereading it, I sounded just like "George",
forgive my poor taste in words.
Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to read.
Hint: you better go look at some of the photos on my site you will see
MHK and Myself using alum 80's and read below the email from George where
he directs the NE divers to go look, it is the same thing I posted.
BTW, I took your question as a stab at me, reread yours and will see you
only ask one real question, the rest was standard DIR answers, statements no
questions at all.
At 03:15 PM 8/10/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
JJ, my opin. is that XXXXXXXXX needs to go to
http://www.wkpp.org and read my DIR configuration
article under "Equipment" and then explain that to
XXXXX and the others. This in cludes our bottle
marking scheme which is at the heart of gas diving.
We can not have an intelligent discussion until that
effort is made, and we can not expect XXXXXXX or
anyone else to think that wearing some wing or some
bottle on some side means anything without this
explanation.
At 12:12 AM 8/15/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:
JT,
First of all, you complaint about George's delivery style and you
called my questions "bullshit" ?
You claimed to do something better (stage marking) and I was sincerely
interested in finding out. You gave an answer which I felt was probable, but
not worth the trouble to adopt (mark FT after the MOD). So I asked for
clarity and you pulled the "WKPP wannabees"-bullshit.
Why do you think that anyone want to sniff anyone else's butt ? People
are on this list to exchange information. So if you have nothing to share,
then STFU, stop pretending like you do and waste everybody's time. I don't
have time to trade insults with you.
Just re-read your posting below and ask somebody to explain DIR to
you, you have no clue of what you are trying to slam.
Hint: nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are
barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to read.
-Phi
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 10:13 PM
To: Phi Le
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: re vb tech report
Below in BOLD is the section about stages written by George Irvine
and is still on the WKPP org. web site in the equipment section. Since most
NE wreckers have turned their back on techdiver due to GI tactics, the only
source of information they can get without being pounded "WKPP wanna bees"
is this site or others who are doing nothing more than sniffing GI butt with
this same copied info.
Stages should be aluminum 80's.
Right off the bat they can see that GI is off his rocker, he has
already told everyone not to change any of his system, they already know
that it is much easier to carry a 45 steel stage than an eighty on a wreck
dive. Alum 40's are better for wreck dives, easier to manage, but he does
not say that in this on the site.
These swing equally from negative to
positive with air, less negative with gas, by the amount of the air
or
gas carried. They are rigged with stainless steel bolt snaps, the
size
of which is determined by whether or not your diving requires
gloves,
They have already figured this out also, except Brass will do at
less cost, they dive cold water so they knew about the size for the gloves
LONG before he did.
and those are attached by a piece of 1/4" line run under a hose
clamp
halfway down the tank and tied to the neck. The upper clip should be
tight to the break of the neck, the lower clip should have plenty of
tail to work with. The bottle needs to be held close in the front
and
lose in the back to prevent drag. There should NEVER be any metal to
metal connections of any part of your rig.
This is something they would not know or understand, UNLESS you have
scootered with stages and without.
Stages need to be permanently marked as to their maximum operating
depth in three inch high letters placed horizontally in the
orientation
of the tank on either side so that the diver can see what he is
breathing, and so can his buddy, no mater where the tank is. The
stage
reg is rigged with a short pressure gauge which is bent back on
itself
to face the diver and held in place by bungee cord at the first
stage,
The reg hose must be the octopus length. The stage regs are always
parked on the bottle and the bottle turned off unless in use. Stages
are
generally worn on the left side for streamlining, and because of the
position and balance of the rest of the gear and the other hoses so
as
not to interfere with the operation of any other gear, as well as
the
scooter , which is driven with the right hand, favoring the right
side.
Is this the best reasons you can write about for marking stages? A
lot of the divers dive SOLO like it or not, so that buddy stuff is a waste
to them.Also don't hold your breath, while your waiting for everyone to
start buddy diving , deal with what their doing now. Breathing correct gas
is good, easy to see what your breathing.
To deploy a stage, we look for the correct depth marking, we put the
reg around our neck, we then turn on the bottle , put the reg in our
mouth, and if we can breath, we are breathing the correct gas. It is
just that simple. No other convolutions are necessary, and would
only add
to the chance for error.
Yes it is very simple, but you need to put it out so they can
understand it and why they should do it.
The 3" marking work very well for our group here, for the very deep
dives I like to have my stages delivered to me, my name and MOD are on them
, it also puts the support diver with me to make sure everything is OK.
Should I need extra gas I need only point to the markings and the
support diver can go to the boat and any bottle will do as they are all mark
with 3"MOD just get one that matches what I need. This can be done on any
dive, if a diver is low on needed gas all he has to do is point to the MOD
and his name, that way we know who is in trouble. Also makes it is easy for
the crew to locate extra gas for him if everyone is marking their tanks the
same way, it is not a CF trying to read those little bullshit tags that fall
off.
Phi Le
I will only answer one of those bullshit questions below.
At 04:07 PM 8/14/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:
JT,
So you feel there is an issue that people might be mistaken for a
stage
marked for 60 ft as EAN60. That's a possibility...
But why would the Capt and other divers be worrying about *my*
stages ?
BECAUSE WE CARE!
Obviously I will be diving with my buddies who would know what the
markings
mean. The stage(s) will be with me u/w so no one will breath it
without my
knowledge.
If someone wants to use them in case of an emergency on the boat,
the oxygen
deco stage is clearly marked "Oxygen" and the rest has the content
analysis
tape at the neck.
Am I still missing something ?
-Phi
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:32 PM
To: Phi Le
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: re vb tech report
There is no better system than what the WKPP use at this time, but
as a
Capt and diver on boats that carry numerous divers on trips who
have no
idea what the markings mean, I have added FT(= feet) to my stages
so there
is no confusion on their part.
If one does not like the FT he can simply cover it up with the
rubber
intertube as JJ did to my tanks he used when they were here.
I will make a detailed list of why making stages in the 3" MOD
works for us
here and why NE wreck divers should follow suit in a later post.
At 01:44 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:
>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
><snip>
>The 2 big things we do not agree on are:
> >2) Reasons why you mark stages...
><snip>
>
>JT,
>
>Why do you disagree with it ?
>
>And since you are marking stages differently, you must feel that
your way
is
>better. Could you elaborate on your *better* system ?
>
>-Phi
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>Hi=20
David,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>
<DIV> </DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>I=20
remember seeing the thread a while back. When JT mentioned he is using a =
better=20
system, I was curious and had thought you guys have come up with =
something=20
totally new. But basically, just adding the unit to MOD isn't a big =
deal.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>I=20
thought JT and I were *not* talking about whether marking MOD is a =
good=20
thing or not, it's a given.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>We are=20
talking about adding "FT" to the MOD and claiming that it is a better=20
system.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>I have=20
some comments about your reasons:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>a. 1,=20
2 and 3 are the same conditions for everybody else around the world as=20
well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>b.=20
4 actually is off. MOD meant to let one know if it is OK to breath =
down to=20
a certain depth from PPO2 stand-point. It doesn't tell you what's in the =
tank=20
(i.e. it could be normoxic trimix for deep stops, =
etc.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>c. The=20
tank content analysis tape at the tank neck tells the diver what is in =
the=20
tank.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>d. Who=20
uses METRIC in the US anyway ? So why is the need to mark the unit=20
?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>e. JT=20
originally mentioned that the unit "FT" was added to avoid confusion. =
What=20
confusion ? The support divers should know the system (I hope). Other =
divers=20
should *not* be touching tanks not belong to them. So I thought JT meant =
in case=20
of surface emergency, people might grab a "60"-ft tank thinking that it =
is a=20
EAN"60" tank. But the content label is clearly indicated the O2 %. So =
why is the=20
need for the unit ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D470505314-15082000>Guys,=20
let's not carry this thread any further since it was hashed to death a =
few years=20
ago. I don't care what you guys do, you know better of your environment. =
I just=20
thought JT had something new...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D470505314-15082000>-Phi</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> David B. Widen=20
[mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 15, 2000
2:24 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Capt JT'; 'Phi Le'<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Tank Marking was RE: re vb
=
tech=20
report<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>Phi=20
Le</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>I=20
was part of the discussion and decision making process that evolved =
the=20
additional information on the tanks. The result was posted almost two =
years=20
ago by Jim Cobb (also part of the discussion & decision). Another =
e-mail=20
discussion occurred about a year ago - same subject - please review =
Tech Diver=20
Archives.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000>Basic reasons (2 years =
ago):</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>1.=20
We (Mid-Atlantic) are not part of a project, we do not have a director =
(although JT is xxx ;-), we cannot control everyone on the boat when =
it is an=20
open trip. Yes we can when it is a charter.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>2.=20
We, as a group, are trying to improve and change the way people dive =
in this=20
area to improve on the safety and understanding.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>3.=20
On open boat trips, we have both tech and non-tech divers on the boat. =
Generally Rec get 2 dives same location and Tech get 1 long dive. It =
is a=20
source of questions and then ongoing discussion about equipment setup =
and=20
configuration with Rec and other Tech divers or tech wanna=20
bees.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>4.=20
It is a good way to clarify "What is in the Tanks" for the=20
uninformed!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>5.=20
It eliminates error for deck support and new support=20
divers.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>6.=20
It defines what is the unit of measurement (feet vs. meters) and=20
limits.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>I=20
could go on about other points and reasons. This should be enough as =
to=20
why.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>I=20
agree with the points of size and minimizing what is on the tanks. I =
agree=20
with many of the points discussed last time around. In our limited =
visibility,=20
once the tanks leave the boat, unless you are with 5 ~ 20 feet of the =
diver=20
(viz dependent), you cannot read them away. So it is more important on =
the=20
boat and for support to know what you need and where to get it. Of =
coarse the=20
number one issue is the diver knowing what gas they are switching to =
or=20
using.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000>George has a very good system and it is =
perfect in=20
the environment used. As more people outside that realm start using =
it, the=20
initial need we saw for the additional tank marking will dissipate. =
Since two=20
years ago, the needs has already begun to change and the knowledge =
around this=20
area has improved.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D375105411-15082000>We=20
need to educate the old divers and set the new ones on a better=20
path.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000>David</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D375105411-15082000></SPAN><FONT
face=3DTahoma><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D375105411-15082000><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D375105411-15082000> </SPAN>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt JT=20
[mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 14, 2000 =
7:33=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Phi Le<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: re vb tech=20
report<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE></FONT>Phi Le<BR> You are correct, after rereading =
it, I=20
sounded just like "George", forgive my poor taste in =
words.<BR><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3Darial size=3D2>Hint: nobody is diving 80cf =
aluminum stages=20
in the ocean so you are barking up the wrong tree there. The rest of =
the=20
post is too stupid to read.<BR></FONT>Hint: you better go look at =
some of=20
the photos on my site you will see MHK and Myself using alum 80's =
and read=20
below the email from George where he directs the NE divers to =
go look,=20
it is the same thing I posted. <BR>BTW, I took your question as a =
stab at=20
me, reread yours and will see you only ask one real question, the =
rest was=20
standard DIR answers, statements no questions at all.<BR> =
<BR><BR>At=20
03:15 PM 8/10/00 -0400, Trey wrote:<BR>JJ, my opin. is that =
XXXXXXXXX needs=20
to go to<BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff><U><A =
href=3D"http://www.wkpp.org/"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.wkpp.org</A></FONT></U> and read my =
DIR=20
configuration<BR>article under "Equipment" and then explain that =
to<BR>XXXXX=20
and the others. This in cludes our bottle<BR>marking scheme which is =
at the=20
heart of gas diving.<BR><BR>We can not have an intelligent =
discussion until=20
that<BR>effort is made, and we can not expect XXXXXXX or<BR>anyone =
else to=20
think that wearing some wing or some<BR>bottle on some side means =
anything=20
without this<BR>explanation.<BR><BR><BR> At 12:12 AM
8/15/00 =
+0200,=20
Phi Le wrote:<BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3Darial size=3D2>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">JT,</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT
=
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3Darial size=3D2>First of all, you complaint about George's =
delivery=20
style and you called my questions "bullshit" ? =
</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3Darial size=3D2>You claimed to do something =
better (stage=20
marking) and I was sincerely interested in finding out. You gave =
an answer=20
which I felt was probable, but not worth the trouble to adopt =
(mark FT=20
after the MOD). So I asked for clarity and you pulled the "WKPP=20
wannabees"-bullshit.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT
color=3D#0000ff =
face=3Darial=20
size=3D2>Why do you think that anyone want to sniff anyone else's =
butt ?=20
People are on this list to exchange information. So if you have =
nothing to=20
share, then STFU, stop pretending like you do and waste =
everybody's time.=20
I don't have time to trade insults with =
you.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3Darial size=3D2>Just re-read your posting =
below and ask=20
somebody to explain DIR to you, you have no clue of what you are =
trying to=20
slam.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3Darial =
size=3D2>Hint:=20
nobody is diving 80cf aluminum stages in the ocean so you are =
barking up=20
the wrong tree there. The rest of the post is too stupid to=20
read.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff
face=3Darial=20
size=3D2>-Phi</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=3Dtahoma=20
size=3D2> -----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt
JT=20
[mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 14, =
2000=20
10:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Phi Le<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: re vb tech =
report<BR></FONT>
<DL>
<DD>Below in BOLD is the section about stages written by George =
Irvine=20
and is still on the WKPP org. web site in the equipment section. =
Since=20
most NE wreckers have turned their back on techdiver due to GI =
tactics,=20
the only source of information they can get without being =
pounded "WKPP=20
wanna bees" is this site or others who are doing nothing more =
than=20
sniffing GI butt with this same copied info.<FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica">=20
<DD>
<DD>Stages should be aluminum 80's.</FONT>=20
<DD>Right off the bat they can see that GI is off his rocker, he =
has=20
already told everyone not to change any of his system, they =
already know=20
that it is much easier to carry a 45 steel stage than an eighty =
on a=20
wreck dive. Alum 40's are better for wreck dives, easier to =
manage, but=20
he does not say that in this on the site.<FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica">=20
<DD> These swing equally from negative to=20
<DD>positive with air, less negative with gas, by the amount of =
the air=20
or=20
<DD>gas carried. They are rigged with stainless steel bolt =
snaps, the=20
size=20
<DD>of which is determined by whether or not your diving =
requires=20
gloves,</FONT>=20
<DD>They have already figured this out also, except Brass will =
do at=20
less cost, they dive cold water so they knew about the size for =
the=20
gloves LONG before he did. <FONT face=3D"Arial Black, =
Helvetica">
<DD>and those are attached by a piece of 1/4" line run under a =
hose=20
clamp=20
<DD>halfway down the tank and tied to the neck. The upper clip =
should be=20
<DD>tight to the break of the neck, the lower clip should have =
plenty of=20
<DD>tail to work with. The bottle needs to be held close in the =
front=20
and=20
<DD>lose in the back to prevent drag. There should NEVER be any =
metal to=20
<DD>metal connections of any part of your rig.</FONT>=20
<DD>This is something they would not know or understand, UNLESS =
you have=20
scootered with stages and
without.<BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica">
<DD>Stages need to be permanently marked as to their maximum =
operating=20
<DD>depth in three inch high letters placed horizontally in the=20
orientation=20
<DD>of the tank on either side so that the diver can see what he =
is=20
<DD>breathing, and so can his buddy, no mater where the tank is. =
The=20
stage=20
<DD>reg is rigged with a short pressure gauge which is bent back =
on=20
itself=20
<DD>to face the diver and held in place by bungee cord at the =
first=20
stage,=20
<DD>The reg hose must be the octopus length. The stage regs are =
always=20
<DD>parked on the bottle and the bottle turned off unless in =
use. Stages=20
are=20
<DD>generally worn on the left side for streamlining, and =
because of the=20
<DD>position and balance of the rest of the gear and the other =
hoses so=20
as=20
<DD>not to interfere with the operation of any other gear, as =
well as=20
the=20
<DD>scooter , which is driven with the right hand, favoring the =
right=20
side.</FONT>=20
<DD>Is this the best reasons you can write about for marking =
stages? A=20
lot of the divers dive SOLO like it or not, so that buddy stuff =
is a=20
waste to them.Also don't hold your breath, while your waiting =
for=20
everyone to start buddy diving , deal with what their =
doing now.=20
Breathing correct gas is good, easy to see what your=20
breathing.<BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Arial Black, Helvetica">
<DD>To deploy a stage, we look for the correct depth marking, we =
put the=20
<DD>reg around our neck, we then turn on the bottle , put the =
reg in our=20
<DD>mouth, and if we can breath, we are breathing the correct =
gas. It is=20
<DD>just that simple. No other convolutions are necessary, and =
would=20
only add=20
<DD>to the chance for error. </FONT>
<DD>Yes it is very simple, but you need to put it out so they =
can=20
understand it and why they should do it.=20
<DD>The 3" marking work very well for our group here, for the =
very deep=20
dives I like to have my stages delivered to me, my name and MOD =
are on=20
them , it also puts the support diver with me to make sure =
everything is=20
OK.=20
<DD>Should I need extra gas I need only point to the markings =
and the=20
support diver can go to the boat and any bottle will do as they =
are all=20
mark with 3"MOD just get one that matches what I need. This can =
be done=20
on any dive, if a diver is low on needed gas all he has to do is =
point=20
to the MOD and his name, that way we know who is in trouble. =
Also makes=20
it is easy for the crew to locate extra gas for him if everyone =
is=20
marking their tanks the same way, it is not a CF trying to read =
those=20
little bullshit tags that fall off.=20
<DD>Phi Le=20
<DD>I will only answer one of those bullshit questions=20
below.<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DD>At 04:07 PM 8/14/00 +0200, Phi Le wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">
<DD>JT,<BR><BR>
<DD>So you feel there is an issue that people might be =
mistaken for a=20
stage=20
<DD>marked for 60 ft as EAN60. That's a
possibility...<BR><BR>
<DD>But why would the Capt and other divers be worrying about =
*my*=20
stages ?</DD></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DD>BECAUSE WE CARE!<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">
<DD>Obviously I will be diving with my buddies who would know =
what the=20
markings=20
<DD>mean. The stage(s) will be with me u/w so no one will =
breath it=20
without my=20
<DD>knowledge.<BR><BR>
<DD>If someone wants to use them in case of an emergency on =
the boat,=20
the oxygen=20
<DD>deco stage is clearly marked "Oxygen" and the rest has the =
content=20
analysis=20
<DD>tape at the neck.<BR><BR>
<DD>Am I still missing something ?<BR><BR>
<DD>-Phi<BR><BR>
<DD>-----Original Message-----=20
<DD>From: Capt JT [<A href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</A>]=20
<DD>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:32 PM=20
<DD>To: Phi Le=20
<DD>Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
<DD>Subject: RE: re vb tech report<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DD>There is no better system than what the WKPP use at this =
time, but=20
as a=20
<DD>Capt and diver on boats that carry numerous divers on =
trips who=20
have no=20
<DD>idea what the markings mean, I have added FT(=3D feet) to =
my stages=20
so there=20
<DD>is no confusion on their part.=20
<DD>If one does not like the FT he can simply cover it up with =
the=20
rubber=20
<DD>intertube as JJ did to my tanks he used when they were=20
here.<BR><BR>
<DD>I will make a detailed list of why making stages in the 3" =
MOD=20
works for us=20
<DD>here and why NE wreck divers should follow suit in a =
later=20
post.<BR><BR>
<DD> At 01:44 PM 8/14/00 +0200, you wrote:=20
<DD>>From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>=20
<DD>><snip>=20
<DD>>The 2 big things we do not agree on are:=20
<DD>> >2) Reasons why you mark stages...=20
<DD>><snip>=20
<DD>>=20
<DD>>JT,=20
<DD>>=20
<DD>>Why do you disagree with it ?=20
<DD>>=20
<DD>>And since you are marking stages differently, you must =
feel=20
that your way=20
<DD>is=20
<DD>>better. Could you elaborate on your *better* system ?=20
<DD>>=20
<DD>>-Phi</DD></BLOCKQUOTE></DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Y
ou =
can't learn to=20
dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the =
water"<BR><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><U>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East =
Coast &=20
more<BR> Web Site <A href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A><BR>Email =
=20
=
captjt@mi*.co*<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></U><
;/BODY>=
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