Al,

You make some valid points.

But  (aside from diving sidemounts)  what if you want to negotiate a
restriction under
water that requires you to remove your gear so you can squeeze through then
continue
your dive.  Whilst like I said I prefer to wear side mounts for this but at the
same
time it is not unreasonable to backmount such a dive.  Also if the restriction
was to
narrow for large side mount tanks to squeeze through safely, then maybe you may
need
to push one tank through in front of you first.  Such a situation would require
you to
be confident that you were negative when such gear/tank is removed.

Granted on most diving situations, you don't have to take your gear off, but
there are
some such situations, then you don't want to be positive when you do
underwater.  it
my be a rare situation that you have to take your gear off, but do you stick
your head
in the sand and say that it would never happen.  I hate wearing weight belts,
but my
suit and thick thermals are positive, that I could wave at the shuttle if i let
go at
depth.  Therefore I prefer to have some weight around my waist, in some dives.

Also I guess that if you need extra weight, and you mount it in between your
tanks, I
won't be busting my ring lifting your tanks out of the boat like we do in
Victoria.

Some times you have to me flexible.


Regards

Dave.



Al Marvelli wrote:

> What i find interesting is that everybody seems to think the exact second you
lose
> your weights you will immediately rocket to the surface. In neo you suit is
> crushed and you have to swim up a little to get it going. Otherwise water is
800
> times denser than air and you have a few seconds to react, unless you are
stoned
> to the bone on air.
>
> The other funny thing is that people cant seem to differentiate between
overhead
> or cave and open water rigs, one is negative for a reason < cave to keep
you off
> the roof, where you can get trapped or in deco anything away from the surface
> where you will fizzle to death> and one is not <open water you may need to
GO UP>
> If you have been playing along here you should know the difference; George has
> been quite clear over the years with this one.
>
> The only place you take your rig off is in the pool infront of students, or
on the
> surface, where weights dont matter.
>
> Al Marvelli
>
> Jim Cobb wrote:
>
> > Hey, Johnny I don't know what kind of diving you are doing "down under" but
> > the kind of diving we do up here, if you get to the point that you have to
> > take your rig off during the dive, you are pretty much fucked, screwed,
> > blued and tattooed, weightbelt or no.
> >
> > Is it just me or does this not seem rather obvious to the rest of the list?
> >
> > Please refrain from further posts until you know what the fuck you are
> > talking about.
> >
> >    Jim
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >
> > > From: "John McMillan" <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > Reply-To: "John McMillan" <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:30:13 +1000
> > > To: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > >
> > > I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been presented over the
> > > last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions have been down
> > > right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what happened to
> > > keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks harness etc
> > > attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the tanks and
harness
> > > etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional weight belt
is
> > > the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good think about why
you
> > > should be weighted this way before you make any comments. The guys that
want
> > > to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think about buoyancy
> > > control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth. If and when
the
> > > shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all over your gear
> > > "good luck".
> > >
> > > Hoo Roo
> > > Johnny Mack
> > > Down Under
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*>
> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hell Cobber they give me a sore back.  I'd bet Mike Black (you know,
> > > the
> > >> guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS hit.
> > >>
> > >> Dr. John Walker
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*>
> > >> To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens
> > >> <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > >> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Weights
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the airflow in your
> > > drysuit
> > >>> and is a failure point. I hate weight belts.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jim
> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>
> > >>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400
> > >>>> To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > >>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Weights
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask some simple
> > >> questions
> > >>>> here.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to learn, and found
> > >>>> everywhere.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if you are paying
> > >> attnetion
> > >>>> you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on your own> and if
> > > its
> > >>>> under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch safety.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> and also
> > >>>>
> > >>>> what is the facination with non ditchable weight?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving by definition??
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but you all do
> > > realize
> > >>>> that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a buoyant ascent ,
> > >> you
> > >>>> are merely performing skills practice?? That evey agency has blow and
> > > go
> > >> as
> > >>>> its last resort for ndl diving?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> have any of you removed your weights during a dive? what was the
> > > result?
> > >> I
> > >>>> had my belt off three times in front of the class i was helping with
> > >> tonite,
> > >>>> no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4 suit  in 12 ft of
> > >> water,
> > >>>> i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my weight belt
> > > with
> > >> just
> > >>>> a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> worried about buckle failure? wear two.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but fyi my
> > >> understanding
> > >>>> of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve gas, even in
> > >> overhead.
> > >>>> and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything, you can either
> > >> blow
> > >>>> and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real redundant system,
> > > not
> > >> 13
> > >>>> freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the bow b/c the
> > >> customers
> > >>>> used up all the rack space with their pony bottles filled with nitrox
> > >> too
> > >>>> hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed and regard dir
> > > as
> > >>>> internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners bitching about my
> > >>>> doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they were, but i
> > > needed
> > >>>> them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking wasting it>so i am
> > >> ready
> > >>>> for all comers on this pony bullshit.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving without a plan.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Think it through people.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Al Marvelli
> > >>>>
> > >>>> PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail addresses ill never be
> > >> able
> > >>>> to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i dont havetheir e
> > >>>> addresses, so get back to me fellas.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> OK, I went through tons of archives last night, trying to get to the
> > >>>>> bottom of this.  First, let me tell you my setup.  I'm diving a
> > >>>>> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a single tank and
> > >>>>> a pony bottle.  Leaving enough air in my suit so I can still move and
> > >>>>> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17 pounds on my belt (I
> > >>>>> dive in cold water).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is ok but not
> > > ideal.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to make a V weight
> > >>>>> for at least some of this.  Let's say it will weigh about 9 Pounds.
> > >>>>> This still leaves 8 pounds.  I could then either leave that on my
> > >>>>> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight pouches.  I
> > >>>>> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of it anymore?
> > >>>>> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit between the bolts
> > >>>>> on the backplate.  I was thinking of this as an option.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light is 6 pounds
> > >>>>> negative (or thereabouts).  Mine is 1.5 pounds negative, which means
> > >>>>> I have to account for that weight somewhere.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that you should have
> > >>>>> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any).  When you ditch
> > >>>>> your weight you don't want to become so positive as to end up in
> > >>>>> lunar orbit.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as possible before moving
> > >>>>> to doubles, so any help is appreciated.  I'm even moving my canister
> > >>>>> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached to the
> > >>>>> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit on the wiring
> > >>>>> connection...not good).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*
> > >>>>> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on the mac
> > >>>>> --
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> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
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> > >>>
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