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In a message dated 6/13/00 4:20:10 PM, thomas@ha*.ne* writes: << Scott, Take out JJ's and George's name and I agree with you. <g> As a matter of fact I can guarantee you that even accepting their stuff without thinking will highly improve your diving. When these two guys announce something Scott, they are backing it up with tons of experience and an unbeatable track record. So you might decide to just copy their methods to get similar results. Maybe you will start understanding better while you are implementing these methods. > particular. And if after careful consideration, those reasons make sense > then great. But IMHO it is just plain WRONG to accept or reject anything > dealing with life support situations just because it was announced by George Irvine, J. J., > Michael J. Black, Tom Mount, Bret Gilliam, or anyone else. The biggest reason not to use a dive computer is because you do not need a dive computer. You do not need it to make an efficient deco dive You do not need it to teach you deco You do not need it to die on you You do not need it to tell you that you violate it's programmed nonsense You do not need it to beep You do not need it to give you wrong information You do not need it to make life "easy" for you You do not need it to tell you what your SIT should be You do not need it to tell you how much air time you have left You do not need it to have a fucking H.U.D. You do not need it to tell you depth etc... Now, can you give me one good reason why I need it? THOMAS >> Hi Thomas, Now I don't want you to feel constrained about expressing your feelings. You can just let it all out. We're all your friends here. You can tell us. . . .. . There . . . . Doesn't that make you feel better? Now perhaps we can talk. << As a matter of fact I can guarantee you that even accepting their stuff without thinking will highly improve your diving. >> While I believe that DIR is based on solid reasoning and experience, I'm really sorry Thomas, but I can not accept this concept. It is so far diametrically opposed to anything I would ever consider, that it is out of my realm of experience. I must convince myself that what I am accepting as truth is indeed valid. Without this, I believe I would be no more than a lemming. Remember, this is diving, not a religion. << Maybe you will start understanding better while you are implementing these methods. >> The fact is that a great deal of my diving is, and has been, using the same techniques that are now espoused by DIR. But I don't see what this has to do with the contention that almost all of the reasons given for forbiding the use of dive computers do not stand up under close scrutiny. For example in your list, there is not one single reason that would *preclude* the use of a computer. You have given a number of instances in which you feel a computer would not be benefical, but no examples where it is contraindicated. And as is usually the case, there is another side of the story. Perhaps I would like to take advantage of a multilevel dive prifile arising during a dive while not being overly penalized by needing to consider the entire dive being done at the deepest planned depth. Perhaps I don't feel comfortable about taking my PC out in a small boat but after surfacing I would like to make a repetative dive. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. That's one of the things dive computers help with. I could answer your assertions with --- One of the biggest reasons to use a dive computer is because you might like to use a dive computer. You might like it to help make an efficient deco dive You might like it to help you with deco You do not need it to die on you --- (I really have to agree with you here) You might like it to tell you that you're violating it's programming You might like it to beep You might like it to give you accurate information You might like it to make life "easy" for you You might like it to tell you what your SIT should be You might like it to tell you how much air time you have left You do not need it to have a f*****g H.U.D. --- (I'm sorry, I don't know what this is) You might like it to tell you depth etc... But we're only talking about word games here. The fact is that dive computers are a way of life in the recreational world and I believe that in the future, (and the not too distant future at that), they will undoubtedly be part of the technical diving community also (even now, how are closed circuit rebreathers controlled?). Rather than discussing whether or not they are applicable now, as I think we both know that they could certainly use some improvements in several areas, I believe we should be spending our time on correcting the present deficiencies of wrist diving computers and helping to make them more applicable for technical diving in the future. I am probably a little older (or a lot older) than most of the people on this list. I remember discussions with several of the manufacturers of vacuum tubes on Route 128 outside of Boston, as to why they were obviously better than these new fangled things called "semiconductors" and why they were just a fad and would never amount to a hill of beans. The manufacturers kept saying that right up to the time they had to close their doors. Guys, wrist computers are here to stay. Let's figure out how to take advantage of them rather than trying to clean out the Aegean stables. They might be like the early diodes and transistors now, but they will obviously get better. But then on the other hand, that's only my opinion. Take care and safe diving, Scott -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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