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Hi Simon, Thanks for the response, I appreciate the thoughts. << So now you need two Deco computers and a host of remote sensors AND a PC + Deco software to cut your backup tables which you then keep in your pocket. Sounds like a very expensive disaster waiting to happen. >> I'm afraid that you're absolutely right in that what I've been talking about would certainly require two hoseless computers with sensors. And a PC and deco software would certainly be nice for planning, gas usage and generalized conservative backup tables. So I guess your statement about being expensive is clearly valid. However the assertion about being a "disaster waiting to happen" is not clear to me. Could you possibly be a little more specific? << Do you honestly believe that after relying on the Deco computers, you will be able to figure out a deco schedule in your head if/when the s**t hits the fan ? >> I can honestly answer this question with a resounding "Of course." I believe the best analogy I have here is for recreational no-deco diving. I like to believe that I have a pretty solid familiarity with the no-deco tables, yet for the last five or seven years I don't believe I have made one single dive without a dive computer. The quest for knowledge is something quite personal, and is not necessarily driven by simple expediency. << The DIR guys have been through all this before and distilled it into a system that actually let you relax and have fun doing deep, long dives. Why dont you try it ? Simon Murray South Africa >> I respect (and am really impressed) by the accomplishments of George, JJ and the rest of the team. They have developed a system for the type of diving they do and it clearly works. But that is not to say that as time and technology progresses, we are to ignore all of the developments that are forthcoming. I studied deep diving a number of years ago and am now teaching trimix and cave. All of my training and experience was with Uwatec depth gauges / bottom timers and (before I had a PC and deco software) the waterproof IANTD trimix multiple deco tables. Now I can cut deco and backup tables more specific to each dive and so get out of the water sooner. My deeper dives this winter were below 400 ft. So I really believe that I have tried that system. And I am still interested in exploring alternative techniques for making deep diving safer and easier. And I believe that in the future, as the construction of and algorithms contained in wrist computers gain maturity e.g. incorporate deep stops, oxygen breaks, better reliability, etc., wrist computers well may become useful for deep diving. Once again, thanks a lot for the comments. There's no substitute for talking to those that have "walked the walk," so to speak. Take care and safe diving, Scott In a message dated 6/12/00 11:03:37 PM, simonm@ho*.co*.za* writes: << > These are good questions to talk about. In an earlier post I suggested that > it might be wise to mount the two air integrated computers on different posts > so I imagine if there were a failure in the primary gas supply such that one > side needed to be shut down and the isolator closed, I would simply use the > computer that was on the good post (the one I'd be breathing) to finish the > dive. So now you need two Deco computers and a host of remote sensors AND a PC + Deco software to cut your backup tables which you then keep in your pocket. Sounds like a very expensive disaster waiting to happen. Do you honestly believe that after relying on the Deco computers, you will be able to figure out a deco schedule in your head if/when the s**t hits the fan ? The DIR guys have been through all this before and distilled it into a system that actually let you relax and have fun doing deep, long dives. Why dont you try it ? Simon Murray South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: <ScottBonis@ao*.co*> To: <artg@ec*.ne*>; <donburke56@ya*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Oxygen Toxicity - using 100% in open water > In a message dated 6/12/00 5:06:42 AM, artg@ec*.ne* writes: > > << On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 ScottBonis@ao*.co* wrote: > > "How does the computer know when to switch to the deco. gasses?" you ask. > > Good question. Magic!!! No not really, the computer is an air integrated > > unit connected to the back tanks. It keeps track of my breathing rate > during > > the dive. And when that breathing rate goes to zero, it knows that I am no > > longer breathing off of the back tanks so it switches to the first deco. > gas > > (the EAN 50 in this example). > > Great. What if your primary gas supply fails, and you're in a gas sharing > situation? Or you're diving doubles, and you have to shut down the > isolator and you're breathing off the post the computer is not on? Now the > computer thinks its time to switch gasses. Ooops. >> > > Hi Art, > > These are good questions to talk about. In an earlier post I suggested that > it might be wise to mount the two air integrated computers on different posts > so I imagine if there were a failure in the primary gas supply such that one > side needed to be shut down and the isolator closed, I would simply use the > computer that was on the good post (the one I'd be breathing) to finish the > dive. If there were a total failure of the primary gas supply (requiring at > least two independent failures) such that buddy gas sharing was required (I > shudder to think of this happening on a deep dive), then as you indicated > both computers would switch to deco gas. But if either of these primary gas > system failures were to occur, then the dive would be called immediately and > I (or I and my buddy together) would ascend immediately, switch to the deco > gas and finish the dive. The only computer error would be the computer > thinking I was on deco gas for the few minutes ascending while buddy > breathing. And the backup waterproof tables, using the computers as depth > gauges / bottom timers, could always be used to figure a new deco schedule if > needed. > > << IMO, any dive that calls for switching gasses is more along the lines of a > "heavy deco" (your terminology) dive, where planning, including > contingencies, is required before entering the water. Diving by computer > is contraindicated for such dives. > -- > Art Greenberg > artg@ec*.ne* >> > > This, of course, is your opinion and I respect that. Remember please that I > am definitely not suggesting doing extended deco dives at this time using > only wrist computers and without having done the proper planning. But I need > to emphasize again that although I personally don't recommend it, IMHO, the > reasons that have been given for not using wrist computers simply do not seem > to hold up under careful scrutiny. > > Art, thanks a lot, really, for your comments. I do appreciate the > opportunity to discuss this stuff and get some of the questions and concerns > out in the open. > > You take care now and safe diving, Scott >> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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