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Paul, I just want to add to what you are saying here - the bottom line is that bungeeing wings is beyond the pale stupid. The correct place for these wings, with our without the bungee cords, is in the trash. Bungee wings are a classic case of strokes designing gear for strokes or neophytes. The new guys get screwed, the strokes get what they deserve, and hopefully the designers and purveyors of these things will get they deserve as well. PK wrote: > > I just wanted to add some thing I have learned from experience that may help > save some trouble. When you take the bungees of the oms bladder you mess > with the way its designed to work. The dump elbow is on the front of the > bladder, (notice where halcyons is - on the back) this position makes it > impossible to dump gas unless you are upright or on your back, the large > size of the bladder behind the neck caused the air to move quickly, way to > quick from on side to another if you did much turning, or playing around. > This really stunk, getting neutral was hard as billw wrote the bladder wants > to raise your head up, or the "bubble wants to rush to the bottom and pop > your bottom up. > > I would never - having tried to do it my self - advise any one to take the > bungees off there bladder, it just don't work right. If its designed to work > with bungees it will work horrible with out them I have decided that I'm > buying a halcyon. > > Paul Komrowski > > PS- 1 100# OMS bladder for sale, with no bungees. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bdi@bd*.co*.au* [mailto:bdi@bd*.co*.au*] > Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:35 AM > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > Subject: Re: advise for new tekkie > > At 09:59 5/05/00 , Ee Michael wrote: > >hi there, > >have a few qus that i would like to clarify on equipemt and the DIR > configuration with the more expereinced ones out there... > > > >1) what is the recommanded lift of a bladder ? i'm from singapore and > currently studiyng in australia...a tek course of cos means we need our own > equipemnt so i was thinkning of a wing bladder. what is the recommanded lift > ? 45 pounds ,65 pounds or 100 pounds ? > > 55 lbs > > >2) IATND recommanded a 22.5 kg lift bag, i have a 25 kg lift bag already > and if i go into tek diving , i think i'd go into only the noromixc with > tehnical wreak level.This means i 'd have max of a double 13 or 15 and 2 > stage tanks ( maybe 1 for travel mix ., the other for deco ) , is a 25 kg > lift bag sufficient in our waters ? > > You would properly be diving with manifolded al 80s. > and alloy stages. The 25Kg lift bag is ample. > > >3) from australia and around asia , the maximum we ever need is a semi-dry > suit. > > Wrong. In most of Australia, if you dive deep and do > decompression dives, you will get chilled in a wetsuit. > We dive dry. > > >Thus the ques of redundencay comes in ,do we OR do we NOT need a double > baldder ? the issue of it being a failure point does not make sense to me as > we can just connect one inflator at a time rite ? > > You do NOT need a double bladder. If you dive a > wetsuit you should be using aluminium 80s manifolded > together. And alloy slings. > > >4) for the convetional backaplte, if we use singles , we need a singel tank > adaptor..but how bad is the drag ? > > Of the adaptor? Undetectable. > > >5) for wings floation, it is known that it has a prolemn enabling a diver > to maitain a vertical postion while on surface > > Wrong - who's teaching you this crap? > > >...are weights necessary on the tank cam bands to help bring the diver into > a vertical postion ? > > No. > > >6) bungees or without bungees on bladder ? why ? the DIR manner said that > the bungees prevents the hose from inflating properly but this means that > the diver have tied them too tight !!! so bungees or without bungees ? we > can always losen the bungee right ? > >aslo i have tried infltating an OMS baldder with bungee orally and there is > no problem with it !! > > Michael what do you really want? Advice from experts > or the opportunity to defend a piece of crap? > > You ask about the drag from a tank adaptor but are > prepared to ignore it when it comes to bungy wings. > What gives? Made up your mind already? There's no > comfort for you here, then. > > >7) wings flotation have the problem of tank wrapping when we use singles or > very small doubles > > Why would you ever use very small doubles? Get real. > > >..is this issue exaggerated or serious ? can we use the bungee to reduce > this effect ? > > This issue is very serious. It means you don't have enough > sense to use a smaller wing with a single tank. > > >8) i feel that the Harothigan method is very comprehenisve but i've been > thinkning on the issue of the bungees. with bungees , > >a)the bladder is at a miuimin size > >b) one can re-adjust the air in the bladder to compenste for stages > >c) minimises wing wrapping > > > > > >cooments and advise please > > Michael, sit down, shut up and listen. > > Bungee wings exert drag when you're swimming. If the bungees are > loose enough not to restrict oral inflation at depth they are > not tight enough to do what OMS claims they do and are > therefore totally unecessary. WHen you do inflate them, > they constrict the bag before full bouyancy is achieved and > then blow off the OP valve. Because they're crinkled up they > trap gas and are hard to fully deflate - which can be a bitch > on deco. They piut the bouyancy beneath the tanks, rather > than around them. Not stable. If you finally get rid of the bungy, > you'll find that the bladder is too wide behind the neck and your > bouyancy is never right. The bungee wings are also implicated in > training deaths. > > Flat wings - halcyon or diverite, sit flat against the > tanks and wrap up round them at the outer edges - as low profile > and streamlined as you can get. > > Who told you about the bugy wings being OK? The same person > who maintains wings "has a prolemn enabling a diver to > maitain a vertical postion while on surface." Who's telling you > this stuff? > > If you're in Sydney give me a call on 02 9977 0307. I have some > time free next week and can show you why the DIR rig works and > the bungeees don't. You'll have to cough up the name of your > instructor though. > > rgds billyw > > >thanks > >mike > > > >ps : guide me according to the qus asked ok...easier for me to undersatnd > !!! > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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