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The rest of the diving world does not have a problem with boyancy control
using tri-lam suits. I sugest that indicates you are doing something wrong

Typhoon web site http://www.typhoon-int.co.uk/
  -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
  Fr�n: Bryon Bertrim [mailto:bryon@bi*.co*]
  Skickat: den 21 mars 2000 15:21
  Till: Mario M. Weidner
  Kopia: Ingemar Lundgren; techdiver@aquanaut.com
  �mne: Neoprene/coldwater-diving&Dry Gloves


  Tell me more about this electrical Undersuit from Typhoon, Is this the
Typhoon of the UK,  What type of dry gloves doe you use ?, 3 or 5 finger Neo
or rubber ?, how do they seal to the suit? What type of suit do you use.
  By the way when i dive deep (not 400-550) but 200 - 250ffw i prefer my
crushed neo over my Tri Lam. I do not feel the suit squeeze with crushed Neo
as compared to the Tri Lam i feel like package of vacuum sealed coffee, even
with a lot of gas which starts to become a problem to deal with on its own.
To much gas moves through out the suit and throws off buoyancy. And is a
pain in the ass when attempting deco stops in open water due to the
inability to get all that gas out fast. With crushed Neo i use very little
gas.  9 mm sound like allot i use a 7 mm.

  Bryon Bertrim


    Fr�n: Mario M. Weidner [mailto:MM.Weidner@t-*.de*]
    Skickat: den 18 mars 2000 13:23
    Till: techdiver@aquanaut.com
    �mne: Re: SV: Neoprene/coldwater-diving
    Hi Ingemar,

    what you said in your last email, makes sense to me! Looks like lot of
    people
    don't know what coldwater-diving is like. Anyway, one should not
overvalue
    the
    advantage of Argon along with a Trilaminate drysuit. For me personal,
while
    diving almost strictly in cold water environments (temperature around
    34-50�F),
    the combination of a 9mm compressed neopren dry-suit plus a electrical
    heated
    undersuit along with several layers of thinsulate underwear, plus dry
gloves
    is
    the first choice. The use of Argon only makes sense, if you completely
flood
    your suit before your dive, to ensure, that absolutely no air is left in
the
    suit. You do flooding, when you inflate your suit with Argon 1-2 times
and
    deflate again, so the much denser gas Argon has pushed out the air
inside of
    your suit. With this outfit, I had no problem, diving under the pack-ice
of
    the
    North-Polar circle, going down for 350ft with dive-time of 100+ minutes.
    Besides
    that, I do dives almost every weekend in cold-water lakes (approx. 40�F)
and
    do
    dives in the 450-550ft range with dive-times of 80-140 minutes without
    having
    any thermo-problems. The Typhoon XCM-heated undersuit along with Argon
suit
    inflation works great than.

    Mario

    Ingemar Lundgren schrieb:
    > The TLS works fine for cold water. I use it and have never had a
problem
    > with it. I have done dives in north Sweden with it where you go with a
    snow
    > mobile for a mile on the ice and then cut a hole in the 1m thick ice.
The
    > temperature is about -30 Celsius and the biggest problem you have is
when
    > you spit in the mask it instantly freezes.  The TLS is great because
(as
    > some body else also pointed out)the ice just peels off. The Cf 200
gets
    > stiff like a statue when it freezes on surface.  In ice diving you
also
    have
    > to have several layers of undergarment and that makes you very bulky
so a
    > non restrictive suit like the TLS helps.
    > The drawback with the TLS is it's durability. I have had a suit flood
with
    > it back in a cave (5c cold water) and that sucked. The c-4 saved my
life..
    > DUI has a new suit that looks really promising, the TLS 450 if i
remember
    > correctly. It's thicker than the TLS 350 but still seems pretty non
    > restrictive. That's going to be my next suit.
    >
    > As for undergarments use several layers and avoid cotton.  Fleece
works
    well
    > as well as wool.  You need to have a layer close to your skin that is
good
    > at transporting sweat away. As main undergarment i use the DUI G-400.
    > Argon is a must.
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
    > Fr�n: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
    > Skickat: den 17 mars 2000 02:33
    > Till: MHK
    > Kopia: aquanaut; quest@gu*.co*
    > �mne: Re: Neoprene?
    >
    >
    > When I dove with you guys out there I added weight and blew the suit
up
    > more ( after the fist dive ), and that worked well, but you will have
to
    > ask the Swedish Brothers or Bott or somebody about real cold water.
I'll
    > try Seattle next and see how that goes.
    >
    > MHK wrote:
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
    > >
    > > > They do not have the buoyancy problems, but they are cumbersome
and
    > > > heavy, and they do not hold together like you would think they
should.
    > > > They are salso restrictive.
    > >
    > > George,
    > >
    > > We all know what a cold water weenie you are :-)  but I'm curious
since
    in
    > > the rare occasions that I dive dry, I use the the DUI CF-200, I
agree
    with
    > > you about the lack of buoyancy problems, but I'm curious about your
    > > experiences with the tri lam in seriously cold water.  I'm talking
Great
    > > Lake area and the like.
    > >
    > > Is argon and C4's enough???
    > >
    > > I've been using my CF-200 for years and haven't had any real
problems
    with
    > > it, but you are right it is a bit restricitive.
    > >
    > > Later
    > >
    >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
    > > For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co*
    >
    > --
    > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
    > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D790560520-21032000>The=20
rest of the diving world does not have a problem with boyancy control =
using=20
tri-lam suits. I sugest that indicates you are doing something=20
wrong</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D790560520-21032000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D790560520-21032000>Typhoon web site <A=20
href=3D"http://www.typhoon-int.co.uk/">http://www.typhoon-int.co.uk/</A><=
/SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----<BR><B>Fr=E5n:</B> Bryon =
Bertrim=20
  [mailto:bryon@bi*.co*]<BR><B>Skickat:</B> den 21 mars 2000=20
  15:21<BR><B>Till:</B> Mario M. Weidner<BR><B>Kopia:</B>
Ingemar =
Lundgren;=20
  techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>=C4mne:</B> =
Neoprene/coldwater-diving&Dry=20
  Gloves<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Tell me more about this electrical =
Undersuit from=20
  Typhoon, Is this the Typhoon of the UK,  What type of dry gloves =
doe you=20
  use ?, 3 or 5 finger Neo or rubber ?, how do they seal to the suit? =
What type=20
  of suit do you use.=20
  <P>By the way when i dive deep (not 400-550) but 200 - 250ffw i prefer =
my=20
  crushed neo over my Tri Lam. I do not feel the suit squeeze with =
crushed Neo=20
  as compared to the Tri Lam i feel like package of vacuum sealed =
coffee, even=20
  with a lot of gas which starts to become a problem to deal with on its =
own. To=20
  much gas moves through out the suit and throws off buoyancy. And is a =
pain in=20
  the ass when attempting deco stops in open water due to the inability =
to get=20
  all that gas out fast. With crushed Neo i use very little gas.  9 =
mm=20
  sound like allot i use a 7 mm.=20
  <P><U>Bryon Bertrim</U> <BR> =20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Fr=E5n: Mario M. Weidner [<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:MM.Weidner@t-*.de*">mailto:MM.Weidner@t-online.de</A>]=
=20
    <BR>Skickat: den 18 mars 2000 13:23 <BR>Till: techdiver@aquanaut.com =

    <BR>=C4mne: Re: SV: Neoprene/coldwater-diving=20
    <P>Hi Ingemar,=20
    <P>what you said in your last email, makes sense to me! Looks like =
lot of=20
    <BR>people <BR>don't know what coldwater-diving is like. Anyway, one =
should=20
    not overvalue <BR>the <BR>advantage of Argon along with a =
Trilaminate=20
    drysuit. For me personal, while <BR>diving almost strictly in cold =
water=20
    environments (temperature around <BR>34-50=B0F), <BR>the combination =
of a 9mm=20
    compressed neopren dry-suit plus a electrical <BR>heated =
<BR>undersuit along=20
    with several layers of thinsulate underwear, plus dry gloves <BR>is =
<BR>the=20
    first choice. The use of Argon only makes sense, if you completely =
flood=20
    <BR>your suit before your dive, to ensure, that absolutely no air is =
left in=20
    the <BR>suit. You do flooding, when you inflate your suit with Argon =
1-2=20
    times and <BR>deflate again, so the much denser gas Argon has pushed =
out the=20
    air inside of <BR>your suit. With this outfit, I had no problem, =
diving=20
    under the pack-ice of <BR>the <BR>North-Polar circle, going down for =
350ft=20
    with dive-time of 100+ minutes. <BR>Besides <BR>that, I do dives =
almost=20
    every weekend in cold-water lakes (approx. 40=B0F) and <BR>do =
<BR>dives in the=20
    450-550ft range with dive-times of 80-140 minutes without <BR>having =
<BR>any=20
    thermo-problems. The Typhoon XCM-heated undersuit along with Argon =
suit=20
    <BR>inflation works great than.=20
    <P>Mario=20
    <P>Ingemar Lundgren schrieb: <BR>> The TLS works fine for cold =
water. I=20
    use it and have never had a problem <BR>> with it. I have done =
dives in=20
    north Sweden with it where you go with a <BR>snow <BR>> mobile =
for a mile=20
    on the ice and then cut a hole in the 1m thick ice. The <BR>> =
temperature=20
    is about -30 Celsius and the biggest problem you have is when =
<BR>> you=20
    spit in the mask it instantly freezes.  The TLS is great =
because (as=20
    <BR>> some body else also pointed out)the ice just peels off. The =
Cf 200=20
    gets <BR>> stiff like a statue when it freezes on surface.  =
In ice=20
    diving you also <BR>have <BR>> to have several layers of =
undergarment and=20
    that makes you very bulky so a <BR>> non restrictive suit like =
the TLS=20
    helps. <BR>> The drawback with the TLS is it's durability. I have =
had a=20
    suit flood with <BR>> it back in a cave (5c cold water) and that =
sucked.=20
    The c-4 saved my life.. <BR>> DUI has a new suit that looks =
really=20
    promising, the TLS 450 if i remember <BR>> correctly. It's =
thicker than=20
    the TLS 350 but still seems pretty non <BR>> restrictive. That's =
going to=20
    be my next suit. <BR>> <BR>> As for undergarments use several =
layers=20
    and avoid cotton.  Fleece works <BR>well <BR>> as well as=20
    wool.  You need to have a layer close to your skin that is good =

    <BR>> at transporting sweat away. As main undergarment i use the =
DUI=20
    G-400. <BR>> Argon is a must. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> =

    -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- <BR>> Fr=E5n: Trey [<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:trey@ne*.co*">mailto:trey@netdor.com</A>] <BR>> =
Skickat:=20
    den 17 mars 2000 02:33 <BR>> Till: MHK <BR>> Kopia: aquanaut;=20
    quest@gu*.co* <BR>> =C4mne: Re: Neoprene? <BR>> <BR>> =
<BR>> When I=20
    dove with you guys out there I added weight and blew the suit up =
<BR>>=20
    more ( after the fist dive ), and that worked well, but you will =
have to=20
    <BR>> ask the Swedish Brothers or Bott or somebody about real =
cold water.=20
    I'll <BR>> try Seattle next and see how that goes. <BR>> =
<BR>> MHK=20
    wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- =
<BR>>=20
    > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*> <BR>> > <BR>> > =
>=20
    They do not have the buoyancy problems, but they are cumbersome and =
<BR>>=20
    > > heavy, and they do not hold together like you would think =
they=20
    should. <BR>> > > They are salso restrictive. <BR>> > =

    <BR>> > George, <BR>> > <BR>> > We all know what
a =
cold=20
    water weenie you are :-)  but I'm curious since <BR>in <BR>> =
>=20
    the rare occasions that I dive dry, I use the the DUI CF-200, I =
agree=20
    <BR>with <BR>> > you about the lack of buoyancy problems, but =
I'm=20
    curious about your <BR>> > experiences with the tri lam in =
seriously=20
    cold water.  I'm talking Great <BR>> > Lake area and the =
like.=20
    <BR>> > <BR>> > Is argon and C4's enough??? <BR>> =
>=20
    <BR>> > I've been using my CF-200 for years and haven't had =
any real=20
    problems <BR>with <BR>> > it, but you are right it is a bit=20
    restricitive. <BR>> > <BR>> > Later <BR>> > =
<BR>> >=20
    =
---------------------------------------------------------------------=20
    <BR>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co* =
<BR>>=20
    > For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co* <BR>> =
<BR>>=20
    -- <BR>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20
    `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. <BR>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe =
requests to=20
    `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. <BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>>
Send =
mail=20
    for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. =
<BR>> Send=20
    subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.=20
    <P>-- <BR>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20
    `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. <BR>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to =

    `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.=20
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    =
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BOD
Y></H=
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