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Coco, let's cut to the chsse here : "Intro to Cave" is bullshit. The problem is that the instructional community is a bunch of scum. Either real cave or no cave. Diving other than with doubles is bullshit in a cave, and having a partial license is bullshit. There is NOTHING in this world of diving more dangerous than a partially trained cave diver, not even deep air. Air to 400 feet after smoking pot is a better bet to me any day. We need only to look at the farm animals that teach cave in Florida and elsehwere - it is a disgrace. Caing diving is a "business" for these peopel and the two agencies , CDS and NACD are nothing but tools of that trade and what they are selling is death, death and more death. Only the very lucky get real diving help after their PAID classes, and those are the ones who survive and go on to have a lifetime of fun. For the rest , it is a horror story . Claudia Milz wrote: > > Just kicking off a discussion - > > A diver with "intro to cave" cert is scootering back in a cave, > doubles on. This is not covered with his formal training. > For what he was doing, he would have needed cave3 with GUE, or a > scooter specialty on top of full cave. > > True, this is far away from each other. He could have just gotten the > intro cert, average talented diver, *wrong gear*, average fitness, > and the panicking hints that there was a huge lack of experience and > therefore, an inability to make the right decisions (at that point, > it was too late to find out that some dives are not so easy). > > But indeed, the lack of the right cert doesn't tell you a whole lot. > Ehem, how many people have all the formal training they would > officially need for their diving? > I.e. a PADI diver without a "deep diver" cert isn't supposed to go > deeper than 100'/30m. Which is a very good idea regarding narcosis. > But who sticks to that? It is more than common practice to dive > deeper than 60'/18m after the open water training. The chick (it > really was one) with the poorest health who barely made it through > the PADI exam (!!!) went to the Red Sea the weekend afterwards and > did 100'+ dives. Another girl had made her cert on vacation and died > on her 6th dive in cold low viz water, 110' deep. > > Maybe people are in general more careful when it comes to technical, > esp. cave diving. But, some people find technical training overly > expensive and play around with gear, deco and whatever without any > clue. This is stupid to say the least, but it seems to be accepted, > as long as nothing happens. > > So we have 3 cases: > a) formal training first, dives to gain experience > b) S#!+ on training > c) informal training > > To make a long story short, how is c) regarded in the community? > The prospective student shows the talent, mindset, etc, and knows his > gear. Now an experienced diver *trains* him. The student is very > good, doesn't have a problem, maybe shortcuts a bit. > > What if > 1) something does happen on an 'inofficial' dive, even if > formal training wouldn't have made a big difference. > > 2) everything's fine, the former student wants to do dives like > this scooter dive in a cave, has knowledge and ability and - there > are people who wouldn't let him, since he lacks the cert. > > What does the list think of liabilities and the moral > responsibilities here? > > Thanks, and have a great weekend. > > Claudia > > > Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:40:06 -0600 > > To: cavers@ca*.co* > > From: Grady Richardson <grichardson@wo*.at*.ne*> > > Subject: Re: Bondage Wings > > > Like Dan and Lance and George said, it wasn't the bondage wings or > > scootering that did the guy in, it was the mind set that did him in. The > > wings and the scooter were the outward appearances of his attitude. > > > > They were going "too far, too fast". They were taking giant strides with > > their experiance instead of small incrimental steps. This goes back to mind > > set and attitude. > > > > Divers are taught in OW1 to dive within their limits (read training).Their > > mind set allowed them dive way beyind their training. If they had more > > experiance, maybe they wouldn't have been in such a situation in the first > > place. > > > > Grady > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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