Tom, I stand corrected - it is true that you and the rest of the gang
were all opposed to the one line in his chapter, and it is true that all
were equally as adamant as you about this . It was not solely your
fault. The fact is the book got published 8 years later with the remarks
in tact, so you and the bozos lost that war and merely prevent the book
from being pubished for 8 years, punishing eveyone and the NACd because
that chapter made so much sense and yuo guys made so little sense in
what you were doing and teaching, and that has not changed much.

 I took up the slack in the meantime, and the fact is that you have been
forced to eat your words on most stuff and before I am done with you ,
you will be doing every last thing I have suggested, and I will be
laughing about it. Bill Mee already pointed this out in his comments.

I will also agree with you that I do not work with the slime that you
call the "community" -  they are worthless, but I do work with those who
want the info and help and do it for free and do it well. 

By the way, we have our own community, and it is growing. We have our
own diving organization , WKPP, which has more access than the combined
"community" in total, we have our own training agnency, GUE , which does
not have to deal with nonsense, and we are open to all , but will not
compromise our standards for anyone.  

By the way, I will let this list tell you whether or not I have
"contibuted" anything to this sport, and once again remind you that I am
not in this business.

Tom, you really need to consider losing my name and the name of the WKPP
and it's members - your attitude is just going to bring out the
nastyness every time. Avoid it by forgetting who I am and never
mentioning me or the WKPP - we don't exist in your world. Forget us.

Tom Mount wrote:
> 
> George You are so full of lies that you really do not even know the truth
> anymore.
> 
> Yes I and several others (about 90%) agreed that the one statement by Bill
> should be removed. No one was red-faced,
> 
> As far as Parker and I being friends you know we were and long before you
> ever even met him or did your first cave dive.
> 
> It was Parker who convinced me to resume the TD position at NACD back in
> 1990
> 
> Unlike you Parker worked within the community and contributed a lot.
> 
> Respectfully yours,
> Tom Mount
> CEO IANTD World HQ
> http://www.iantd.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> To: Jess Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> Cc: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; a n <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
> 
> > Jess, in Mouth's book or manual or whatever it is, he puts a big
> > "editors" note over JJ's contribution basicly trying to offset it and
> > deny its validity. Typical personal preference Mouthism. I love it when
> > he quoted Gavin - I was at the NACD training committee meeting ten years
> > ago when Parker Turner got in Mouth's face over Bill's chapter in the
> > NACD manual. Note that due to the extreme objection of Mouth and the
> > other strokes ( Mouth is an admitted stroke and has the T shirt to prove
> > it) in  NACD, this did not get pubished until two years ago due to
> > Gavin's ending sentence which Mouth was red faced screaming over. Now he
> > qoutes Gavin and says Parker wa his "friend". Parker , like me, only
> > thought that since Mouth is teaching so many people, it mith be a good
> > idea to have him understand the real world of cave diving. Not a chance
> > in hell he would listen then or now.
> >
> > Jess Armantrout wrote:
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > > JJ was trying to be polite.  He never said anything contradictory to
> what G
> > > said.  In tactfully saying "there will always be idiots with bad gear",
> he
> > > apparently failed to make his point.
> > >
> > > If you actually read the section by JJ that you have now posted twice, I
> > > think you will see this to be true.  If you can't figure it out, call
> JJ.  I
> > > am sure he will be glad to explain it to you in no uncertain terms.
> > >
> > > Sincerely GFY,
> > > Jess Armantrout
> > > CEO Armantrout Enterprise Inc. World HQ
> > > http://www.biteme.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > To: trey@ne*.co* <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > Cc: a n <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
> > >
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >As far as JJ is concerned I just posted his published configuration
> section
> > > >fro the IANTD technical Encyclopedia and his concluding statements
> whether
> > > >or not it is or is not of one mind with you I could care less. It is
> what
> > > he
> > > >stated, therefore one would assume it is what he believes thus based on
> > > what
> > > >you publish and rant about would differ in approach that you do.
> > > >
> > > >Lets compare George you say do it your way or you are a stroke . do it
> your
> > > >way with no exceptions, do it your way without question, do it your way
> or
> > > >be yelled at, cursed at and badgered for weeks months or even years
> > > >
> > > >JJ states" "two things will undoubtedly remain constant there will
> always
> > > be
> > > >new equipment for people to obsess over, and there will
> > > >> always be people arguing over how that equipment should be configured
> > > Your
> > > >> response to these arguments should be based on your actual needs, and
> on
> > > >the requirements of your diving environment."
> > > >
> > > >Guess there is some link as to the two of you having one mind in these
> two
> > > >statement but George it sure is not apparent in how you approach
> things, so
> > > >are you saying JJ is being untruthful in his statement or heaven forbid
> > > have
> > > >we all misread you and you agree with what JJ said and simply like the
> > > >ability to express yourself adequately.
> > > >
> > > >JJ's statement mirrors what a lot of us state, believe and encourage.
> > > >
> > > >George Your approach is quite different and is expressed more in the
> terms
> > > >one would expect from an 8th grade bully.
> > > >
> > > >As far as records George I have none today but as you know and all the
> dive
> > > >history books detail I have had my share, but then again we set them
> just
> > > >because of our love of diving and interest in seeing something new. our
> > > >records were broke frequently as we all shared information and site
> > > >locations.It was not uncommon for a record to be broke one day then
> that
> > > >night when divers were sitting around a camp fire (in those days cave
> > > divers
> > > >camped out a lot and it served as a social event) and the dives were
> > > >discussed that others who took part in the discussion broke the record
> the
> > > >next day. As I said we enjoyed what we were doing and as a whole most
> of us
> > > >got along quite well. In fact overall that was pretty true until YOU
> came
> > > on
> > > >the scene with your belligerent attitude.  But I guess that is what
> many
> > > >today call the good old days. Today is better as far as technology and
> for
> > > >the majority most still do get along. Most either patiently tolerate or
> > > >simply ignore your spoiled child type behavior
> > > >
> > > >George unlike you I evolved and along with numerous others was
> responsible
> > > >for a lot of the evolvement in technique and equipment in cave and
> > > technical
> > > >diving. I formed one of the first cave diving groups in the USA the
> > > >Aquamarine Cave Dwellers (named after a dive shop and commercial diving
> > > >operation I had in the sixties)which we later changed the name to the
> > > >Florida Cave Dwellers and then it evolved to the NACD we developed
> > > >educational, programs, techniques for cave diving, and  equipment
> > > evolution.
> > > >Remember when we started there were no BC's no SPG's and no gas
> management
> > > >rules. It was our generations that developed these procedures and we
> are
> > > >still evolving. You simply emerged many years later and was fortunate
> > > enough
> > > >to have Parker Turner( a good friend of mine and a student of my dive
> > > >Partner Frank Martz)take you under his wing and teach you the basics of
> > > >caving and exploration and then Bill Gavin developed your exploration
> > > >skills. Today you are lucky to have JJ pulling the way for you ..
> > > >
> > > >The important thing is for people to understand what they do and how
> they
> > > >configure their equipment, how they select good education programs and
> how
> > > >they perfect their technique and knowledge and their mental
> relationship
> > > >with what ever they are doing. Good divers THINK, they do not just
> blindly
> > > >follow or close their eyes to evolution. As I stated each person should
> > > >think it through and see the logic in each thing they do and in
> equipment
> > > >configuration and then they should do it correctly.
> > > >
> > > >As always George you still remind me of the kid in 8th grade who
> thought
> > > >they were a bully and then everyone else around them grew up mentally
> as
> > > >well as physically. Most even learned how to communicate with and have
> > > >social relationships with other people. Such values as ethics, honesty
> ,
> > > >respect YOU know George, all those things you do not understand.
> > > >
> > > >George it is sad that you present yourself in the manner you do because
> you
> > > >do in fact have many good ideas , you also have some that are not so
> good
> > > >and while you can share some of the good you are to closed minded to
> ever
> > > >except those lessons you could learn.
> > > >
> > > >By the way what happened to your new love Trialothons, I thought you
> were
> > > >doing the iron man.
> > > >
> > > >Respectfully yours,
> > > >Tom Mount
> > > >CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > >http://www.iantd.com
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > >To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> > > >Cc: a n <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:49 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Mouth, there is nothing fun or funny about you , your oganization, or
> > > >> your mindless drivel. You have never done a real dive in your life,
> and
> > > >> neither has anyone in your organization. For that reason, and your
> > > >> inability to learn anything from the pros, you have no clue what you
> are
> > > >> talking about, and what you have had jammed down your throat you
> still
> > > >> do not understand intuitively.
> > > >>
> > > >> You are correct in one thing - nothing you do is DIR, and DIR is not
> > > >> "Hogarth" . By the way , it is "Hogarthian", you dislexic, malapropic
> > > >> moron.
> > > >>
> > > >> I need to clear up one thing that you keep trying to obfuscate.
> Jarrod
> > > >> and I are of ONE MIND on all issues of diving. Your insunuations to
> the
> > > >> contrary are more of your twisted nonsense.
> > > >>
> > > >> Anytime you want to argue anything where you think I am wrong, I will
> be
> > > >> happy to make as ass out of you publicly and show how little you
> know,
> > > >> how little thought you have put into any of this, and how little
> > > >> exprerience you have ( none to be exact) with the real thing. I wil
> also
> > > >> be glad to show how virtualy nothing you think makes even the tiniest
> > > >> bit of common sense. Bring it on.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom Mount wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > First the shirts were for fun, we thought they were funny and still
> do
> > > >they
> > > >> > have nothing to do about endorsing anything except ones freedom to
> > > think
> > > >and
> > > >> > discuss issues rather than blindly following someone
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Errol made a comment about records i have had few I do not have any
> > > now.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> >


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