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>Return-Path: <owner-techdiver@opal.com> >Errors-To: owner-techdiver@opal.com >Errors-To: owner-techdiver@opal.com >Precedence: bulk >Errors-To: owner-techdiver@opal.com >Date: 26 Jan 1995 23:40:41 U >From: "Roger Carlson" <Roger_Carlson@at*.sp*.tr*.co*> >Subject: 1/2 Offgassing from a tek.d >To: "aquaCorps" <aquacorp@sh*.ne*>, > "Michael Menduno" <73204.542@co*.co*>, > "List TechDiver" <techdiver@opal.com> > >Part 1 of 2 > > Well, I've been back from tek for a few days. I know some of our other >friends are still up there at DEMA, so let me be the first to give you a >report. I came back with my brain pretty full, not that that's any real trick, >and there was a lot to see, so please understand if I leave something out or >skipped a seminar you wanted to hear about. > This post is really long. It grew out of control. It's so long my >mailer wants it in two sections. I truly apologize for the length if you pay >for access; perhaps I should have sent this out only on request, but so many >people would have posted "yes, send it to me!" on techdiver that I figure it's >easier to hit delete once, now, than 10 times for all those request messages. > There is some stuff on rebreathers and other equipment toward the end, >if you just want to skip down. > Please excuse me if I mention a lot of manufacturers; I don't work for >any of them, and we are in an equipment intensive sport. > Aslo, should you find something in my humble ramblings worth further >discussion, please start a new "subject" so we can follow the thread more >clearly. > >Let me get a bit of overhead out of the way now, and tell you about the >mechanics of the show. There was a small exhibition hall, with about 90 >booths. There were two banks of seminar rooms, about a 10 minute walk apart, >which was kind of a problem since at any one time there were about 3 or 4 >seminars I jumped between and that was a long walk. They tended to dedicate a >room to the same style of seminar, and so popular seminars in a series got >packed into some small rooms. One room, for example, was usually on >exploration reports, and it was too small for Noel Sloan on Huatala or Jim >Bowden and Ann Kristovich on Zacatun. My biggest complaint was just that there >were too damn many seminars, and I wanted to go to most of them. At any given >time, there were 5 to 8 talks. They lasted an hour each, with only half an >hour between them. It was hard to make it down to the exhibition floor at all, >and I know I wasn't the only one who skipped lunch every day. It would have >been nice to have a longer break between seminars for lunch and for the >exhibitions. You could walk the exhibition floor pretty quickly, but you could >also spend hours talking to any one vendor. > >Before I go any further, I'll spoil Chris Perret's fun and tell you his >announcement: Bill Hamilton, and DCAP, are now part of Abyssmal Diving, and >DCAP will soon be a part of Abyss. I won't spoil the secret Rich Pyle's been >keeping for the last few months, since he hasn't been teasing us with it, but >by hinting at it, I guess I'm as bad as Chris now. > The only other netters I saw were Andy Cohen, David Story, John Crea, >Dennis Pierce and Kevin Neil-Klopp. It's tough to find each other. Maybe next >year in New Orleans we should have a sign, like ripping one corner off your >badge. > Crea and Pyle were often giving symposiums; on the rare occasion Pyle >wasn't behind a mike, he was working a booth, so he probably didn't get to see >many of the forums at all. His IWR forum, with TDI president Brett Gilliam, >was packed and overflowing into the hallway outside. We on techdiver have a >distinct advantage: few of the people there are as up on technology and have >discussed it as thoroughly as we have. I jumped out of a lot of forums because >for me, they were working through a lot of basic issues we've covered here. >That might have made my input particularly valuable, but there were so many >other things I wanted to see. > >One other announcement: the next issue of aquaCorps is out, and they had it at >the show. It's "Wreckers." I know they've been taking a lot of flak about the >regularity of aquaCorps; I guess that they are trying very hard, and without >fanfare, to fix it. I meant to get a copy, but didn't, so I don't know much >more than that. Hopefully, it will be in our mailboxes soon. > >If it sounds like I'm name dropping in the following, it's on purpose. I'm >nobody. This was the first tek I've been to. I don't even have the credentials >to get into DEMA. And yet, at tek, I met a lot of people who are big names in >diving, and who were very happy to talk@te*. That's a big part of what gave >tek it's flavor, and I'm trying to pass that along. > >********************************************************* > > tek.95 started with a panel discussion on the future of diving. Mike >Menduno, editor of aquaCorps, introduced panelists Phil Nuytten from Hard >Suits International (the Newtsuit); Billy Deans from Key West Diver; Tracy >Robinette, from Divematics; and a technical liason from PADI, whose name I >have forgotten. My apologies. They all had good things to say about our new >toys, but made a few points that were threads throughout the show. Robinette >and Nuytten agreed that rebreathers had been around a long time; technology >makes them more accessible, but the issues which have kept them from being >appropriate for most divers still have not been addressed: training, safety, >certification, fills, maintenance.... the infrastructure open circuit has, >that *nitrox* doesn't even have yet. Deans mentioned a few times that there >were still lots of issues to be addressed with nitrox, and he was right: I >found little mention of nitrox, or even trimix, at the show. Deans also said >not to throw away your open circuit equipment. This meshed with something I've >been thinking since reading Hard: there is no one best tool. Technical diving >comes down to getting the gear and skills you need to go the place you want to >go, and that doesn't always mean rebreather or NewtSuit. Or surface supply. >And too often, we buy the gear, but not the training. One way or another, you >pay for it. > There were a few panel discussions like this in the largest hall, that >would take place with no other forum going on. These town hall meetings had a >two-piece band that would play a short riff while there was a break in >conversation, for example, while Menduno was moving from the podium to his >seat. It gave the forum the feel of a late night talk show. Typical aquaCorps >style: it might have annoyed some people, but it gave me a smile. > I went from this forum on to Nuytten's talk on atmospheric diving >systems, which was why I actually missed the forum on Desktop Decompression, >and Chris Perret's formal announcement. I know I just said that no single tool >is always the answer, but ADS puts a big stupid grin on my face. I love this >stuff. There is something about the NewtSuit, and the light, swimming hardsuit >under development, that really attracts me. > A lot of Nuytten's talk was on the light suit. Apparently, last year >at tek he promised that he would make a suit with three hundreds: weigh less >than a hundred pounds, cost less than $100,000, and reach 100 meters. He said, >more than once, that he regretted shooting his mouth off. It's easy to make a >stronger NewtSuit to go deeper, but lighter and less expensive is difficult. >The first problem is that the suit needs to be low volume, so that it doesn't >need much weight to bring it down. Under "only" 100 meters of pressure, the >sections can be concave and scalloped for lower displacement, rather than >convex and bubbly for strength. The rotating seals in the joints are still >large, as they are defined by the human range of motion. The result is >something Batman or Dracula might wear, kind of a gothic suit of armor. I >liked it a lot. Unlike bigger suits, you won't be able to pull your arms into >the torso or head to work controls, so many controls and displays will be >outside the suit, on the arms and chest, as on a regular diver. > This suit has fingers. Each of three fingers and the thumb have rods >leading back from each joint, through seals, to rings on each joint on your >hand inside. The mechanics are pressure balanced, and since the controls are >rods, forces will travel in both directions: if the suit feels concrete, you >will feel concrete. Nuytten claimed the suit would have more sensation than >divers with thick gloves on. > Nuytten said he was also having difficulty designing a new rotating >seal; if all else failed, the NewtSuit seal could be used, but at added weight >and cost. The suit would have thrusters as an option ( I wonder about their >duration), but would be able to be propelled by fins. He showed a sketch of >the boot; it had a high, flaring cuff around the ankle shaft, like some kind >of Errol Flynn pirate boot. Tap a chin switch to make buoyancy neutral, tap >another to release some locks, and that soft, flaring section hinges down and >locks onto the toe to become a fin. Better, actually: a force fin. At this >point, I'm grinning like an idiot again. My lifestyle demands chin switches, >pirate boots, gothic armor, and James Bond Transformer cartoon technology. I'm >not the only one, either. Hall Watts, Mr. Deep Air, wanted one too, and I've >heard a lot of resorts would like to get them for people who wouldn't >otherwise dive. > Nuytten mentioned another suit he is developing: a space suit. Seems >there are some scientists studying the upper atmosphere, tens of miles up, and >they will soon go there in a high-flying plane. When they are done pointing >sensors out the windows, they intend to jump out the doors. They will freefall >for 8 minutes. They will go faster than mach 1. The suit will be critical: it >must have the mobility to allow these maniacs to control their tumbling. Some >Russians tried a similar jump in thicker suits, and could not stay in control. >They spun so fast their arms and legs came off. > Nuytten's talk was the highlight of the show for me, and for others as >well (not that the rest of the weekend was dull). I talked about this seminar >with a lot of other people who had come to tek from the Association of Diving >Contractors show that had happened the week previous in Texas. These are the >hard hat, surface supplied, commercial people. Some had interest in tek, some >were even going on to DEMA. Incidentally, it was announced that next year, all >three shows will be in New Orleans, all in a row. ADC, tek, DEMA. For some of >us, ADC, tek, DEMA, detox. That's going to be a lot of fun. > Next up was Billy Dean's talk on the El Cazador project. I'm kind of >assuming you all read aquaCorps, so I won't go into too much detail on some of >this. For you new folks, aquaCorps is a quarterly magazine on technical diving >that sponsored the tek conference. There are other technical journals, often >on more specific topics, like east coast US wrecks or cave diving, but >aquaCorps brings it all together in one place. Each issue has a certain theme, >and are referred to by that name: we've had Bent, Computing, Mix, C2 (closed >circuit), Hard, and soon, Wreckers. The magazine has a certain irreverent >attitude and a lot of heavily computer-processed imagery; Rich Pyle has >referred to it as Wired Goes Diving. I'm not going to explain Wired. Anyway, >even though a few people feel that the glitz gets in the way of the diving in >the magazine, they still subscribe. Personally, I like it a lot. If you get >techdiver, you should probably get aquaCorps. 800-365-2655 or 305-294-3540 or >fax 305-293-0729, $49 / 1 year / 4 issues. > Deans ended up talking about not the El Cazador, but another salvage >project, with a similar moral: trimix did a job cheaper than surface supplied >would have. I'm still forming an opinion on this. I'm not sure where the wide >gray line is drawn between surface supply and scuba. There are tools and >techniques to be learned from both: the right tool for the right job. Scuba is >cheaper than surface supplied, partly because of the infrastructure required >on-site for a commercial, surface supplied job. Still, there is a reason the >commercial companies use that infrastructure. They learned a lot of lessons by >killing a lot of divers. Lad Handleman, one of the founders of Oceaneering, >the largest commercial dive company, is now on the aquaCorps board. I really, >really value what he says. He has a very different set of tools from what we >use, and he is often very unhappy with what we use. I am not sure we need four >point moorings on our boats, and I'm not sure he is ever going to see the >point of divers decompressing while drifting free, hanging under a liftbag. I >doubt I am ever going to have someone on the surface tending me. Just the >same, I want him in the room. He always has a different viewpoint, based on >long experience. He fights the same battles with pressure we do, but for >different reasons, and has come to different, yet valid, conclusions. He often >seems pretty impatient and dissatisfied with us and our techniques, but from >what I have read in their journals, he is very open minded compared to some >commercial contractors. Few others would be willing to spend the time he has. > There were a lot of very competent people at tek. People who go to >hundreds of feet have to be. People who teach other people to go to hundreds >of feet have to be. People who set policy for people who teach other people to >go to hundreds of feet have to be. These were the people at tek. I would have >to say, though, that two people stood out from the crowd: Billy Deans and Phil >Nuytten. They both know their shit. It's immediately obvious. Nuytten knows >how to build things, how to use them, how to get a job done, how things work >underwater. Deans knows how to run a diving operation, how to dive. Nuytten >has done a lot of heavy work underwater, and Deans runs operations that expose >a lot of people to deep water. You get the impression that their word is good, >that around them, things get done properly, with efficiency and precision. I >can't wait to use one of Nuytten's suits, or experience one of Dean's >charters. > > The next seminar I hit was given by Noel Sloan, on the Huatala >project. I am probably spelling that wrong, but trust me, I can say it. Take >my word for it. This is the caving expedition in Mexico headed by Bill Stone, >for which Stone built the Cis-Lunar rebreather. Sloan didn't have a lot of >slides; most are in the hands of National Geographic, who may one day write an >article. This is fascinating stuff: these guys are driven by something I only >have a little bit of. I'm not sure anyone can fully comprehend the difficulty >of this expedition, on so many levels, the years and the work it has taken. >I'm not even sure they can comprehend how hard this is, since they are talking >about going back this year. > In a way, I hated hitting the presentations on expedition reports; I >felt I should be in forums shaping the future of technical training, learning >things I don't know, setting rebreather standards, and saving lives, but I >just couldn't resist enjoying myself once in a while. I went to a presentation >by Marty Snyderman, and he discussed some of his u/w photo techniques and >showed some slides I'm not sure he shows most audiences. There was one of his >first shark cage, with nice big windows for the cameras, and another picture >of that same cage, with Howard Hall inside, wrestling with a five foot blue >shark, also inside. He showed a few slides of people in the chain mail shark >suits, and talked about their weight, and how difficult is was to swim in >them. He showed the usual picture of one being tested: a small shark gnawing >on someone's arm. He said, "So you think this proves the suit's effectiveness? >Nope, this does." and he showed the suit's inventor, legs spread, and a shark >fully biting down on his crotch. No shit. Enough said. That's a good suit. I'm >getting one for visiting my nephew. > > On Sunday, I started off by going to a seminar I would have overlooked >but for a recommendation from Billy Deans. It was given by a "high school >chemistry teacher," on the secret service aquatics program. It became apparent >that this is one of the finest training agencies going. These guys train for >every contingency, and do more than talk about it in a classroom. Unlike many >government agencies, this group typically shares what it learns. For testing >airline evacuation slide/rafts, rather than buy the equipment, they trained >with an airline and shared the results. Deans told me that this group made a >lot of improvements to equipment we all use, and just gave it back to the >industry. I talked to the presenter later, and he said he wasn't a high-tech >guy, looking for rebreathers. He'd be happy to find a snorkel he liked. >Several people told me that he'd spent a few years designing a decent dive >bag, and the result was the dive bag from hell, large enough to kidnap several >children (odd that a secret service man would use that turn of phrase, but I >knew better than to ask too many questions....) I haven't seen one, but it's >made by Eagle Co., from Fenton, Missouri. There was a thread earlier about >harnesses: the secret service designed one for helicopter pilots that's just >what we want, fully airlift ready, with some inflatable floatation. > I'm not sure I can use the secret serviceman's name; I probably can, >since it was in the program, but something else he said makes me hesitant. In >any case, this is a guy I'd like to see interviewed in aquaCorps. > I went on to a presentation given by some hack, some fish grad student >or something, trying to tell us that since submersibles went deep and divers >stayed shallow, he was finding a profound number of new species by using mix >to explore the 200 fsw region, but I fell asleep. > Rich won't be back from DEMA for a week, so I can get away with that. >On the other hand, I probably just shot my chances of him ever letting me try >his new toy... > Rich also gave a talk with Brett Gilliam, as I mentioned, on in-water >recompression. It was really packed, so I gave up my space to others, so I'm >not sure what Gilliam had to say. There was a lot of interest, though. This is >a subject that just isn't addressed much, if at all, and a lot of people >wanted to learn about it. Perhaps it is time for another article somewhere. It >is certainly time to gather more data, and to try to design a study >(difficult, with human subjects). This should certainly be bigger at the next >tek. I'm not sure PADI OW I is ready for this, but more people should know >it's out there. > The final talk I went to Sunday was given by Mike Gernhart, astronaut >and former commercial diver and vice president of Oceaneering. This was >another sleeper talk I might have missed but for a recommendation from Rob >Ryan, former head of the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber. Ryan is doing his own >consulting now, setting up chambers wherever needed. It seemed like everybody >you bumped into at tek was somebody, and happy to talk. > Anyway, it's clear that Oceaneering, Cis-Lunar, Hard Suits >International (Nuytten's company), and several others, are interested in >space. Technology that can handle 10 atmospheres externally is easily >adaptable to 1 atmosphere internally, or so you would think. The human body >isn't. > The space suits the US uses have an internal pressure of about 4 psi. >The low pressure is to give the heavy cloth suit and gloves some dexterity >(talk to Nuytten....). Stepping into 4 psi basically means decompressing, and >the time to decompress to 4 psi has been proven, the hard way, to be longer >than predicted by our deco models. I don't remember details of the models, but >I remember some numbers. When possible, they lower the cabin pressure in the >shuttle to 7 or 8 psi, and pre-breathe 100% O2 for three hours, With life >science experiments on board, they cannot lower cabin pressure, so the >pre-breathe is extended to 12 hours, if I remember correctly. If you go for an >EVA space walk, and use my numbers, and they are wrong, I take no >responsibility. Anyway, Gernhart's research showed that they had to go from >the pressure ratio model we use to a pressure difference model to decompress >to below 1 atmosphere. His thesis on the subject is available out there >somewhere. One interesting side effect of making a decompression dive is that >repetitive dives become safer and safer. Everything is backwards. > Remember the discussion thread we had a bit back, on decompression >stops on days with big waves? If I recall correctly, there was a commercial >diver with records that showed that these days produced statistically lower >incidence of DCI. We were discussing whether simply more care was taken on >days with less friendly environments, or whether the waves had some massaging >effect that worked bubbles out of the body more smoothly. Gernhart, in >passing, mentioned designing a deco schedule at Oceaneering. They came up with >a 4000 minute run time but that produced too high a rate of DCS, so they went >with 8000 minutes. Maybe this is why Handleman likes decompressing in >chambers. Gernhart said that by throwing spikes to depth into the schedule, >they got run time back down. That's all I know. I don't know the profile, I >don't know loading, I don't know mixes, I don't know times, frequencies, or >depths, but I know this: we need to find Gernhart's paper. He mentioned the >Umich archives. > > Sunday night, the tek evening show, was finally time for everyone to >relax and be entertained. It was great to finally be able to fully enjoy a >slide show without feeling like I was missing a dozen other seminars I should >have been in. > The program began with a presentation by Howard Hall, on rebreathers >and Imax. Hall and Bob Cranston have been using the Mark 155 rebreathers, and >are very happy with it for certain applications, such as filming shy >hammerheads. Both Rich Pyle, in his presentation, and Hall, in this one, >commented on how much fish sex is going on down there that doesn't happen when >open circuit is scaring the fish. Rich said they liked mating over >prominences, and his head being a prominence, fish would come to him, an >icthyologist, to mate. Wild. Makes you feel like washing your hair, but still, >wild. Similarly, Hall said the hammerheads were mating, twisting up together >and sinking fast, and he filmed a pair as they crashed into the reef very near >Cranston. > Right tool for the right job: manta rays and whales like divers, Hall >said, and they swam around for a long time with rebreathers on, and couldn't >find any. With the noise of open circuit, they find you. There is more to >rebreathers than just silence, however: these filmmakers are usually shallower >than 100 feet, and the long bottom times the rebreathers give them is a real >advantage. Hall also said a Cis-Lunar wasn't ideal for him; he'd prefer >something more streamlined. > Hall, one of the most entertaining speakers of the weekend, also >talked about the use of the 3D Imax camera. Film comes in 25 pound rolls, and >each roll costs $25,000 with processing, and lasts 7 minutes. Rebreathers >don't make much difference in noise: the camera sounds like a chain saw. The >housing is the size of a refrigerator. Hall said if you had a friend who >didn't dive, or actually, several, you could take them in the housing. > I am not sure where there are 3D Imax theaters. I love Imax. I'll >watch anything in Imax. I'll go see a film on grass growing. I will go well >out of my way to see Hall's new film. He said the camera was great for things >like sea lions and bat rays, but its greatest strength was for macro work. He >filmed a surf shark being born, coming out of its case. The shark was a foot >long, a foot and a half from Hall's mask. In the theater, suspended a foot and >a half in front of you, you will see a foot long shark being born, just as >Hall saw it. Hall has shown us wonderful things in 2D. He's awfully excited >about showing us this. > > The next presentation was a plug for wreck preservation, given by the >National Park Service. They have made some public service announcement >television spots, and will soon be running them in markets with high exposure >to wreck divers. I guess this is one of those equal time rules, but I found it >a bit strange, given that the new aquaCorps is called "Wreckers" and that the >next presenter was Gary Gentile. I have not read Wreckers, so I don't know how >the topic is discussed, and I'm also not sure how I feel about it myself. On >the one hand, I dream of diving on a really big wreck, like the Doria, and >getting to see the little things that show proof of human habitation, but on >the other, I'll confess that part of me really wants to take a souvenir. I >have lusted in my heart. > Gentile's talk was on the Lusitania, and he as much as said that part >of the thrill of the expedition was seeing a lot of great artifacts that had >not been taken by an earlier French team. For example, they found the bridge >telegraph. Gentile always does great research; he always tells a fascinating >story detailing the history of a wreck. Now, he told that the tragedy of the >Lusitania was worsened when, after torpedoed by a German sub, the Captain >called for engines to be reversed to stop the ship to safely lower lifeboats. >The engines never reversed, and lifeboats were tossed as they hit the water. >Here was the telegraph showing engines still ahead: the engine room never >acknowledged the order to reverse. > Gentile also detailed the techniques used to reach the wreck. Gentile >himself had previously called the wreck unreachable; it's in 310 feet of >strong tidal current. The divers had 45 minutes of slack tide to get down; 5 >pairs went down, 1 pair tended the surface. Each diver checked his name off a >slate at 50 feet on the way down and on the way up; the last diver up cut a >line to cast a suspended decompression stage adrift in the current, giving the >divers an easier hang. Bottom vis was as little as 10 or 20 feet, and it took >some time to orient themselves on the wreck. The wreck itself was somewhat >intact, although the wooden decks had collapsed onto each other in an >accordion effect. > > The first half of the presentation ended with a tribute to Sheck >Exley, given by his longtime friend Ned Deloach. Deloach told of how he had >met Sheck, while trying to write a book detailing caves in Florida. He was >getting little support from others; they wanted to keep the areas secret to >prevent accidents. Sheck sided with Deloach, backed him against the >opposition, and gave him a book of detailed notes on the caves. Sheck went on >to spread a lot more information about caves and cave diving, and made it a >lot safer. Finally, Billy Deans, winner of the 1994 tekkie award, presented >this year's award posthumously to Sheck. > > The second half of the presentation was given by Emory Kristof, of >National Geographic, on his exploration of the Titanic. What can I say? He >teamed with some Russians for the use of two submersibles, went down with a >lot of bright lights, and came back up with an Imax film. The slides he showed >were taken with 400 and 1600 ASA print film, using only the video lighting, to >give you an idea of its strength. I was surprised to see that he used print, >rather than slide film; in fact, the images were transferred to PhotoCD, then >onto the slides he was showing us, without much loss of quality. None, really. >I've never really liked print film, and I have no experience with photoCD. I >didn't expect it to be that good, but it was great. > > >#----------------------------------------------------# > Roger Carlson H 310-frogger > Somewhere off Hermosa Beach, CA W 310-813-0858 > Roger_Carlson@at*.sp*.tr*.co* F 310-812-1363 >#----------------------------------------------------# >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@opal.com'. >Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@opal.com'. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scot Anderson <scot@bt*.co*> http://www.btg.com/~scot/
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